Why prayer and Does it work? (page 2)

metatron

Unfortunately, I can only be very general on this forum.

Lots of synchronicity - foreknowing a relative's impending death
(no preexisting condition) - praying for the appearance of a
specific kind of technical expert - and meeting him an hour later
in a remote location purely by accident.

Read Synchronicity, Science and Soulmaking by Victor Mansfield
It will get you thinking. I am interested in anything that
"works" regardless of theory. I'm investigating Polynesian
shamanism at present. Missionaries claimed these guys could
pretty much duplicate Biblical miracles - before they wiped 'em
out!

metatron

Undecided

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies, I enjoyed them all.

I don't try to kill my wife's faith, but sometimes I do express my skepticism to all the religious bunk that I hear. I went with her to church for about a year and now she has stopped attending, too much turmoil there, human failings like all faiths experience.

I haven't given up on there being a God or some being that may be responsible for the material things, but I really don't have the slightest idea what he may be like. I talk to it(him) in my mind ocassionally, but don't really pray. Like Metatron, I suspect there may be some force that we don't understand that may be present in some people's mind, but I haven't experienced it myself. Untill I do or see some proof I will remain a skeptic.

Ken P.

ISP

Prayer may focus your mind...and that may help you! But so far as expecting help from an external source....you will be disappointed.

ISP

target

Dazed and Ken:

It seems there are a number of us visiting this site that have an interest in these "alternative" subjects. After I left the borg, I felt like I was in limbo. I felt no need to run off and join some other religion. I was drawn to the subject of Energy Healing. I found material on the Indigo Adult and children to be very interesting.

Target

Mulan

When I was a JW, I prayed all the time. Since we've left I never pray, and I mean never! I don't even think about it. However, I am a firm believer in goal setting. I set goals, I repeat them over and over, I write them down, and look at them frequently. I have a dream board, with pictures of the material things I want, and look at it everyday. One by one, I get every single one of these things.

So, is prayer a form of goal setting? I think so. As to working things out with God, by talking about it, I talk to my husband about everything........also my daughter and my other best friend. I don't keep 'stuff' inside me. Maybe I don't need prayer.

Those who think God heals cancer, or that their prayers have done it, are just kidding themselves. Sorry, but I lost my dear cousin this year, to breast cancer, and she fervently prayed everyday for it to go away, and so did her doctor, a very religious man, and several of her nurses. One of the ladies I worked for, added Sharon's situation to her prayer circle, and she was prayed about all over the world, for two years. She died.........and pretty fast too. Forgive me if I sound dogmatic, but that is one thing that is really irritating for me to hear.

As to the water on warts thing: some warts just go away anyway, and some need chemicals to kill them. The other experience about birds eating the cancer visualization, sounds like more urban legends, if you ask me. Where is the documentation on this one? Why haven't any doctors picked up on this and spread the news?

Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)

Princess

It's funny, I've never discussed prayer with Mulan other than what she said above about it being a form of goal setting. I suspected that she didn't pray, we basically feel the same about religion these days without having to discuss it. I never pray anymore either. My husband says a prayer at dinner for the whole family and he prays with the kids at night...I think. He has always been a more spiritual person than me. I was never good at praying as a JW and I am just like Mulan. I never even think about it. I remember as a small child we were expected to pray silently before we ate if we weren't eating together as a family. One day either my mom or dad asked me what I said when I prayed. Well, I couldn't tell them that I silently said the abc's so I just refused to talk. I had myself so upset that I didn't finish eating. It didn't make me a better prayer, I just gave me time to think up an answer if they ever asked again. Funny how those memories pop out of nowhere. I couldn't have been more than six or seven.

Anyway, I agree with Mulan about the cancer prayers. Doesn't work. I have a friend who credits God with his current remission, but I personally think it's his incredibly positive attitude that has helped him along. He has a strong faith in God but he also puts on a smile and has a positive thing to say no matter how he feels.

Princess

Sunbeam

Hi Ken

I meet with 2 friends every other week to pray together. We keep a prayer diary and tick off prayers when they are answered. We've ticked off a LOT of answered prayers.

Why do we do it? Lots of reasons. We see prayer as simply talking to God, not just making requests, and he wants us to talk to him. We don't grovel. We are recognising the power that he has over our lives, asking him to help us, supporting each other and thanking him for everything that we have.

We pray according to his will because we also want everything to happen in accordance with his wishes, not our own (we haven't asked for a lottery win yet). This helps us in our walk with him. You could see prayer as goal-setting, but we often pray for people who aren't even aware that we are praying for them. So when these prayers are answered, it is difficult to claim the placebo effect.

Love
Sunbeam
xxxx

funkyderek

I remember as a child my brother had terrible warts on his hands. My dad took a bit of water and dropped it (the water) on the warts and chanted something like "warts go away" over and over. Within a few days the warts had started to disappear and eventually went away. My dad tried the same thing on me and it didn't work. I can only assume it was because I was older and didn't believe it would happen

So it worked once and wasn't reproducible, and you "can only assume" that it was your lack of belief that caused it to fail? A more likely scenario is that the treatment has no real effect (being only water), and your brother's cure was coincidental, especially as you admit that it didn't happen straight awy. Children's warts tend to disappear with or without divine intervention.

--
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit attrocities - Voltaire

mommy

Sunbeam,
Please take no offense to this comment, but I must say it. You said,

but we often pray for people who aren't even aware that we are praying for them. So when these prayers are answered, it is difficult to claim the placebo effect.

Actually you had a 50-50 chance, which is great odds. And if you look at it like that, minds well pray to win the lottery, odds couldn't be better, that prayer will be answered.

Funky,
I had a wart on my elbow, and after an intense wrestling match it disappeared. I had much more fun doing that, than I would have with the water trick.
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

Sirona

Hi

I think that prayer works sometimes, but not because an external God is answering them. I think its a form of self-help. I believe that the reason some things cannot be changed by prayer is that those things are necessary for our life course. If we are going to die from cancer, we will, no matter how much prayer we try. Then again, if the cancer will go into remission, then the prayer will help that process along through positivity.

Im not saying its all destined and that prayer is futile. I think it can certainly help with little things, and can help people feel a little more empowered about their life (as though despite circumstances they can work towards something positive). The part where prayer is destructive is when people completely deny their own PERSONAL responsibility to sort out their lives and constantly expect God to do it. I think JWs fall into this category...God is asked to solve all problems.

Sirona

** http://www.religioustolerance.org **

Why prayer and Does it work?

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