Conversations with my 81 yr.old JW mom - Implementing a little Steve Hassan

by flipper 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • flipper
    flipper

    As some of you know my mom and dad have been JW's since 1951 . Since time began. They are very respectful of my fade - and I have been able to talk especially with my mom about my doubts since leaving the org. 5 years ago - and she has listened to me question the child abuse crisis, higher education , and complain about my adult witness daughters shunning me. She has never once disagreed with me. She acknowledges my concerns.

    But after reading Steve Hassan's books I am taking a bit of a different tactic with her now- as I will other witness relatives. Get her and them to think about things - while avoiding verbally putting the religion down . Hard to do, but doable. Here is the 1st conversation I had with her recently :

    Mr. Flipper : " You know mom , I remember you sent me the April 15th Watchtower dealing with generation . And I found it interesting.

    Did you ever think you would make it into your 80's in this system of things ? Or did you think we would be in the

    paradise by now ? "

    Flipper's Mom : " Well, no, I never thought I'd make it to my 80's in this system of things . I felt we'd be in the paradise by now. "

    Mr. Flipper : " Yes , I know. I remember being told as a teenager in the 1970's that I'd never have to raise my children up in this wicked

    system - that I'd have children in the paradise and raise them then ! And look at how things are now ! I have a 23 yr.old,

    21 yr.old, and 20 yr.old ! Isn't that something ? "

    Flipper's Mom : " Yes you do have children that old ! Really amazing ! And it seems like the longer we are in this system, every year

    we see more and more things happening in the world as it winds down. "

    With that, when I saw her climb back into the protective cocoon of her hopes I felt it would be better to cease and desist and wait for another opportune time . At least maybe she will start thinking about things on her own.

    Another brief conversation she was complaining about my 34 yr.old witness niece being aggressive talking to the doctors about my sister's stroke situation. Seem's the doctors thought my niece ( sister's daughter ) was coming across too bossy ! My nephew, her brother 31 yrs.old ( an inactive , never baptized ex-witness since 18 ) was summoned to talk with the doctors and handled himself brilliantly - being very considerate, taking care of setting up details for his mother . So when my mom was going on about how respectful my nephew was , and how good of social skills he had in dealing with the doctors, I briefly said , " Well mom, it 's interesting my nephew hasn't been to meetings or a witness since 18 years of age - and look, he's still able to carry himself well, showing manners and respect to others. I guess this shows there are some nice people outside of the witnesses who learn how to be polite ! " And my mom came back politely to me and agreed ! She said, " It sure does show there are lots of nice people outside the witnesses ! There are lots of them ! " So- I just left it at that and changed the subject.

    So- What do you think ? Do you think my mom is possibly thinking a lot about things as she is aging ? Perhaps on the outside just appeasing my elder father , but playing along to keep the peace ? I will gradually just give eyedropper amounts to her in questions at times. So- I look forward to your opinions as always ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • oompa
    oompa

    my parents are only 66 and very fit...but i still feel guilty when I reason with my elder dad on things....trying to get him to see what i see....why would i want to ruin his entire social structure?...It is impossible to replace for most...but especially at their age....what do you hope or think would happen to your mom if you wake her up?.............oompa

  • flipper
    flipper

    OOMPA- I don't really want to change my parents social structure. I realize in their 80's they are probably set in their ways. Just trying to get her to think " outside the witness box " as she is a talker and well respected in our witness family ! So , even if she doesn't admit publicly to agreeing with these things- if she does agree within herself , then by her actions and accepting of others - she unwittingly could influence some more witness family members without even knowing she is doing it ! See my point ! She may influence my younger nieces and nephews in their 20's and 30's to analyze more deeply the validity of continuing as a witness ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • minimus
    minimus

    When JWs are 80 plus yrs. old......what are you going to do? Suck up and deal. Your mom isn't gonna change!!

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Not to dash all your hopes in one thoughtless comment by me, whose opinion
    you value so highly, but I think you are reading a bit too much into Mom's comments.

    every year we see more and more things happening in the world as it winds down.

    Still believes in "the truth."

    It sure does show there are lots of nice people outside the witnesses !

    ....and if you weren't there but a JW was, this would have been followed with "If only
    they had the truth."

    Okay, good job though. I wonder if the first convo. could have been brought home
    to focus better. What if you asked, "If you could have asked for it to arrive sooner, would
    you have asked for Armageddon by 1975 or at least before now?"

  • flipper
    flipper

    MINIMUS- I'm not looking at " changing " my mom. She is cool the way she is. But she doesn't totally think like most witnesses. She is willing to talk with me about a lot of subjects. If by chance by me " planting " a thought in her gently , and it makes her help some of my hard-a$$ witness family members soften their views on shunning perhaps - then that's a good thing. I realize my mom and dad won't change - but they both have been softening their views compared to the past

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    My brother had a similar conversation with my mom years ago....

    Brother You know mom, all Christians have been looking for the end since the days of Christ. The Apostles thought Christ was going to return within thier lifetimes. The Witnesses have changed the story many times, you know that mom.

    Mom What if it all was a lie?

    Brother Mom, what do you mean

    Mom (She clammed up)

    She was in her early 70s when this conversation took place. Just a few years before she died. My brother & I think that she could not face the fact that almost all of her life was lived for a lie, a beautiful mirage of hope that came only with the trappings of a steel claw of the cult. Cognitive Dissodence at its best.

    Skeeter

  • flipper
    flipper

    OTWO- I agree with you. I know my mom still believes it's the " truth " . I'm not trying to change that. I realize that no great changes are occuring here. But if she is softening her views somewhat as my dad is in regards to being hardline towards the shunning policy , or being more authentic than they used to be when times were more urgent - then because my mom is respected people in my family will follow her attitudes in being respectful and kind even to witnesses no longer attending even in our family ! That's the point I'm getting at. Not that SHE will change, but her softening attitude will change others.

    You are right about the 1975 thing though- I perhaps should have pursued it with a question like you posed. That was a good question. Thanks

  • no more kool aid
    no more kool aid

    I am happy for you that you can have such a non hostile discussion with mom. My older JW relatives also can't belive they are still here, my mother in law actually says she will probably not live to see the new system. It's sad because they really put their whole life on hold and still do.

  • verystupid77
    verystupid77

    Yes I think you are right on. No you do not want to take away her friends but living a lie is not good either. I love your reasoning points. I am trying to do this with my husband. It is so hard there are so many time I just want to scream what is wrong with you that you can not see this. But I have seen him coming back to me after I have just thrown something out there and I can see that he has been thinking over what I said he has even told me that I have made some good points. It is so hard to go slow but we have to. Like the thread on we just need to wait on Jehovah. My husband uses that one all the time it just make me crazy how stupid that reasoning is. I have such a hard time not telling him that especally when he uses that about the pedophiles. There is no wating when it comes to that and he agress with me that the FDS is wrong but Jehovah is allowing it for some reason. I know I just need to go slow. Thanks for your thread flipper.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit