Which "Michael" in Daniel? Really need a little help here

kzjw

This refers to the on-going Michael the Archangel is Jesus argument...

My wife gives Daniel 10:13, 21 and 12:1 as proof that Michael is the post-ressurected Jesus. Are those versus even referring to Michael the Archangel or some other Michael? If so, where is the proof that it refers to him as Jesus?

Also in the NWT, how is Luke 2:21 translated? Here's the KJV;

21 And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, [e] His name was called JESUS, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.

That verse seems to say it all for me, but you know how JW's are, "It may say that but..."

Help me if you can I'm feelin' down...

kzjw

sacolton

You gotta love the WTBTS reasoning. They despise the trinity doctrine, but have no problem with Jesus being two people ... or three. He's "the Word" then He's an archangel, Michael then He's Jesus ... returns to being Michael after the resurrection.

Nope, can't have a Godhead, but hey, Jesus can be two or three people. No problem.

isaacaustin

Daniel 10: 12 And he went on to say to me: “Do not be afraid, O Daniel, for from the first day that you gave your heart to understanding and humbling yourself before your God your words have been heard, and I myself have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days, and, look! Mi´cha·el, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; and I, for my part, remained there beside the kings of Persia.

Michael is one of the foremost princes.... there is nothing unque about that. The WT teaches jesus is the unque son of God. Yet Daniel says Michael is one of a group. One of means more than one, one of at least two.

sacolton

I believe Gabriel is another archangel. I think there's seven total chief angels.

isaacaustin

correct..there is also a Raphael...and 5 others...

kzjw

I'm sorry, I was just reading the "Dumb it down" thread...So this was Michael the Archangel in the chapters of Daniel? And what about the 2 part of the question. Doesn't Luke 2:21 give undeniable proof that Jesus is simply Jesus?

sacolton

Luke 2:21
21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

This is in reference to this scripture:

Luke 1:26-38
26 In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31 You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
34 "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37 For nothing is impossible with God."
38 "I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her.

Before Jesus was born, He was "the Word". Not an archangel. Not a created thing. He was always with God. Gabriel gave Mary the name "Jesus" before she conceived.

isaacaustin

Yes it does.

Also I may ask..if the resurrected Jesus is truly Michael why is the risen Jesus NEVER once called Michael in the Bible?

sacolton

More importantly, why does Stephen request JESUS to receive his spirit? Why not MICHAEL?

Act 7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Jesus and Michael are two separate people. Not the same.

This scripture actually gives more evidence that Jesus is part of the Godhead. How?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that “the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.”

Spirit returns to God?

"Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Let's see that again .... in slow motion ...

Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that “the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.”

Act 7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Did you catch that? Stephen is calling for JESUS to receive his spirit. Where does a spirit return to?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that “the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.”

Amen!

kurtbethel

In Watchtowerthinc(tm) poor Jesus gets stretched really thin in all his personalities and duties. Besides being Jesus, the Lamb, the Prince of Peace and all the usual titles, he manages to fit in being Michael. The Watchtower is not happy without "going beyond what is written" in their demand for Jesus to "do more" so they draft him into duty as the Angel of the Abyss, Abbaddon, as told in the Revelation Climax book. As if that is not enough, we learn that in the Finished Mystery book that Jesus approved of so much that he appointed the Watchtower over all of his possessions, Abbaddon is none other than Satan! So reasoning on the spiritual food, Jesus is Abbaddon, Abbaddon is Satan, therefore Jesus is also Satan.

I bet the Satanists would be floored if they knew that.

Which "Michael" in Daniel? Really need a little help here

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