I believe that a well written response was posted by an active bro.
DA Letter Based on the "Blood Issue"
by watson 31 Replies latest watchtower medical
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watson
Here it is. To be fair and balanced....for you Beks!!
http://newsblaze.com/story/20081212133443zzzz.nb/topstory.html
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metatron
Blatantly unscriptural. The Apostle Paul spoke about rejecting those who promoted a sect, not harboring private doubt.
metatron
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StAnn
Here it is. To be fair and balanced....for you Beks!!
http://newsblaze.com/story/20081212133443zzzz.nb/topstory.html
Read this. My response? Blecchhhhh..... Stupid Dubs. StAnn
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orangefatcat
you did a fabulous job in your letter to the idiots at Bethel and if they couldn't see the truth in what you were saying then definitely their eyes have been blinded by Satan the Devil who transforms himself into and angel of light so the glorious news of the Christ does not shine through. I can't imagine how anyone in their right mind can't see the accuracy of what your are showing them from the Word of God.
what is the matter with them, they see no evil hear no evil speak no evil oh yes they do see all those things they just don't give a damn.
You wrote that out so precisely and clearly that anyone could see clearly that was the truth and that the GB are a bunch of buffoons, or baboon. Quick where are the banana's
Well I am very proud of you standing up to the elders and to the WTS.
We need more friends with tons of chutzpah.
mazeltov. -
?me?
wouldn't ANY major, or semi-major change in the WT's beliefs technically give you any out to leave? i mean you were baptized under, a certain set of beliefs that you agreed with, or could deal with, and if they change them , you should be allowed to leave with no hassle. i guess the problem begins if you would like to remain and express displeasure in certain NEW understandings.... ------------------------------ i think JW's who lost people to the old belief (no blood at all, nothing) could harbor resentment at the new understanding. and I have always believed that they really cant have it both ways....either ban it all to gether or dont. but they have relented and allowed a more liberal, albeit confusing set of rules about blood......................... -------------------------------- i always stress to my friends at the hall when they start talking about all the medical aspects of blood and transfusions, i tell them none of it matters at all, the WTS stance is supposedly TOTALLY SCRIPTURAL...... MEANING transfusions could be the best thing in the world for you , but the only real reason a jw will not do it is the bible, not because of any medical info... i never worry about taking my blood card with me, and if i ever get into a medical situation i will let the doctors do what they think is best, while "prefering NO BLOOD"... and using any and all HIPPA laws to keep all the info private...
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Vinny
I wrote that letter in Feb 2006 when I officially left the faith. I did not intend for the publisher to post it last week, especially with my name and website attached. I just replied to a JW brochure somebody had sent them and which he posted in the letters to the editor section online. I was surprised to see them post the whole thing. And, interestingly, the editor chose the title, which mislead everybody to thinking it was from an active Witness. But, after thinking it over decided to let it go and hope that having a real name and person along with the letter might make a difference to some. And I believe it did help. In one week since it was posted I have received over 100 e-mails. Many from current JW's with many doubts but who stay for family reasons. I have received so many horror story e-mails now that make my own bad experience look like a walk in the park with daisies. This is truly a destructive religion today! There are so many people who have left, that have been abused, shunned, kicked out of businesses, property and more; judged, labeled and lost precious family solely for disagreeing with WT policy, that do not post here or anywhere else online. They just deal with it, andmany times alone. I have had a hard time keeping up with so many stories like that in fact in just one week. Even current JW's that think it's "the truth" are scared to say anything other than come back to the one true faith, without any specific arguments to my many issues raised. It has been sobering, for me, to see just how much damage this religion inflicts on decent people every single day who just so happen to follow their conscience and heart. Yes, there was a reply to my own story and reasons for leaving. But I also sent them a rebuttal this past Saturday, that may or not be posted sometime in the future. I will attach that reply here now: Are Jehovah's Witnesses Truly Directed By God? In reply to Aaron Lundstrom's letter to the editor titled, "The Role of Accurate Knowledge in Faith", Mr. Lundstrom makes this statement about the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses: " While not being earthly kings over Jehovah's Witnesses, the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is a body of appointed men who take the lead in directing the spiritual education of the Witnesses and their public ministry, using the Bible as a textbook. These appointed ones are believed to be anointed with and directed by holy spirit, just as the governing body of anointed Christians were in the first century. (Acts 2:1-4; Acts 15:23-29) Like David, these men are imperfect." **** Mr. Lundstrom plainly tells the reader that the Jehovah's Witness Governing Body (leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses) are believed to be anointed with and directed by Holy Spirit today. "Believed" by whom, we might ask? Believed by Jehovah's Witnesses themselves. As a 15 year baptized, active and zealous Jehovah's Witness, who was also an elder with a variety of responsibilities, I can attest that this statement is very TRUE. I was continuously taught at meeting after meeting, and fully believed -- as has every Jehovah's Witness that I have ever met and known -- that the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses (also known as the Faithful and Discreet slave and Watchtower Society) are God's Specifically Chosen Channel on the earth today, and that he uses them exclusively to direct his will on the earth and to direct his specially chosen people, the Jehovah's Witness Religious Institution and its members. The Watchtower Magazine and other Witness literature is believed by Jehovah's Witnesses to be just how God communicates his will on earth today through that Governing Body, God's supposed Instrument of communication. This harmonizes with what the Watchtower Magazine itself has said throughout the years about itself. 1919 "Is not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?" {WT Apr 1 1919 6414} 1933 "To feed or teach his people the Lord has used the Watch Tower publications.. No man is given any credit for the wonderful truths which the Lord has revealed to his people through the Watch Tower publications." {WT Dec 1 1933 263} 1939 "It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communicating to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." {YEAR 1939 85} 1942 "The Watchtower does not consist of men's opinions" {WT Jan 1 1942 5} 1957 "Jehovah has established a very definite channel of communication through which he deals with his people .. It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God." {WT Jun 15 1957 370} 1969 "Jehovah's organization as directed by his 'faithful and discreet slave' class should influence our every decision also. {WT March 15, 1969 172}
1973 "Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." (Watchtower; July 1, 1973, pp. 402.)
1979 [Of those living at the time of Armageddon, only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved] {WT Feb 15 1979 30} 1993 "But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be NO PLACE ELSE TO GO FOR SALVATION"... Watchtower 9/15/93 page 22 : SEPTEMBER 1996 Kingdom Ministry (Page 1 paragraph 3) Article titled, Walk by Faith: "We must also be firmly persuaded that Jehovah is leading us by means of his visible organization under the direction of “the faithful and discreet slave." SEPTEMBER 2002 Kingdom Ministry (Page 8 paragraph 5) Article Titled, Avoid the Pursuit of Valueless Things: "Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication,“the faithful and discreet slave.” That “slave” has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as “the proper time” for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God’s appointed channel for reliable information—Matt. 24:45." Clearly then, anybody can see that Jehovah's Witnesses teach the belief that God has chosen only the Watchtower leaders as his "Channel of Communication", and that Jehovah's Witnesses themselves are admonished to follow all of these specific teachings that are published in their literature as if it was coming from God Himself. And as already mentioned, as a 15 year member and elder, this is exactly what I believed as do all Jehovah's Witnesses that I have ever known. So then, the question remains, are these claim TRUE? Has God chosen The Watchtower as his specific and only religion on the earth? For me, after a thorough examination of the full range of facts as they truly and honestly are, the answer has become a very clear and resounding NO. If I had known back then in 1990, when I was baptized as a Witness, what I know now today in December 2008, I would have never been baptized as a Jehovah's Witness. But back then, when I was studying the bible with Jehovah's Witnesses there was no internet to use to gain valuable information and to examine the Witness faith as well as its history like there is today. I basically took their word for it when it came to information they presented to me, as well as what they present to all potential Jehovah's Witness Bible studies, namely --their version and their side--. So then what caused this change in my position and belief that God chose the Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses as his channel and people? For me it was a combination of learning about Mistake after mistake having been made (throughout the entire 100-plus year existence of the Watchtower Society); A back and forth Flip-flopping again and again on numerous doctrinal positions; Several well publicized end of the world predictions that Never Came True; Terrible Watchtower Society positions against often LIFE-SAVING medical procedures such as vaccinations, organ transplants and blood transfusions that have literally caused thousands of people to die unnecessarily; the arrogant belief that only Jehovah's Witnesses are true Christians while all others religions and people of those religions will be destroyed unless becoming a Jehovah's Witness;... all this along with a host other strange, inconsistent and even embarrassing teachings and beliefs for over a century now. I have concluded that God would never be behind an organization (that claims he has chosen only them), that has gotten so many things wrong for so long and made so many mistakes, all in verifiable writing, throughout its entire existence on this earth. This is a link showing just how many mistakes there have been over the years: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm If God were to literally choose just one faith on the earth to represent him and his interests, along with using this same one group to publish his own thoughts, on a variety of subjects and issues, wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that God would do better than what the Watchtower has done with all of these mistakes posted above? And while some of these policies have been dropped, reversed, adjusted, never came true etc etc; while they were in effect, Jehovah's Witnesses simply had no choice but to adhere to them, had no choice but to teach them to other people even if they themselves disagreed with them or if they were later proven to be wrong or bad policies. If any Jehovah's Witness did not support whatever policy was in place at that time they would have to face organizational counsel and discipline, which if not properly accepted, would then lead to being disfellowshipped (ex-communicated) followed by extreme shunning and the losing everybody you know including your very own family members. One cannot disagree with any JW current teachings without facing the severest of punishment in times past as well as today. Which is exactly what happened to me as I explained my my previous letter to the editor titled, "Zealous Person For Jehovah", found here: http://newsblaze.com/story/20081209054218zzzz.nb/topstory.html One simply cannot disagree with any current WT policies without facing the severest of penalties through extreme shunning by all Jehovah's Witnesses. For any Jehovah's Witness that does not comply with these shunning policies, they in turn will face discipline and if not accepting the counsel, they too will then be disfellowshipped and shunned. I have lost my step son and our first grandchild (now three years old), my brother in law, several business partners, my good name and reputation, I am judged and labeled as some wicked apostate godless man and am shunned by all Jehovah's Witnesses today. Why so much severe punishment as this? What is my crime to face such consequences? I simply disagreed with the JW blood policy. I did not take blood. I did not tell others to take blood. I simply DISAGREED with this JW policy and now I am shunned, labeled and judged for the rest of my life along with losing some of the very family I raised. Is this loving, fair or Christian? I have done nothing wrong. After concluding, through enormous efforts, that the Watchtower Blood policy is wrong (just like their no vaccinations and no organ transplants policies were wrong before, I simply could no longer with a clear conscience make other people in my territory accept this policy, which is a mandatory requirement if one wishes to become a Jehovah's Witness. And because of this I was going to be disfellowshipped. So instead I disassociated at that very same time. Mr Aaron Lundstrom would like for the reader to chalk up all those numerous mistakes from the Watchtower Society throughout their entire existence to mere human imperfection. He then tries to compare such Watchtower failures to the mistakes of biblical figures such as King David and the Apostles of the first century. What Mr. Lundstrop fails to recognize is that people, as individuals, have always and will always make personal mistakes throughout their lives as imperfect humans. David, Moses, Peter, Paul and many others made mistakes. All Christians today do as well. Even the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses themselves make mistakes as imperfect men. But as clearly posted above, and as quoted by Aaron Lundstrom at the tope of this letter, the Watchtower's Governing Body is said to be "anointed and directed by God Himself." It's in clear print for anybody to read. But here is the problem: These men of the Governing Body get together as acollective group, they pray for holy spirit to guide them as a collective group, they then make decisions based on being directed by God's spirit as a collective group, they then publish those decisions in their Watchtower magazines made as a collective group and then force those decisions on all Jehovah's Witnesses and expect them to live by those decisions at risk of losing God's favor and threat of disfellowshipping and extreme shunning. But then when we find out that those decisions had to be dropped altogether, reversed, adjusted, changed and even apologized for, we can clearly see that God was never behind them to begin with. They were wrong the first minute they came off of the presses. God was definitely never behind these many erroneous Watchtower policies despite claims to the contrary. What Aaron Lundstrom fails to differentiate is that Human beings, individually, are allowed to and do make mistakes on a daily basis; including Moses and Jesus own hand-picked apostles. The very Writings (which are claimed to be from God --2Tim 3:16,17 and 2Peter 1:20,21 and Acts 3:21), of these same bible writers however are without mistakes anywhere. When the apostles mistakenly thought the Kingdom was being established at that time, they asked Jesus for clarification. (Matthew 24:1-3). They did not PUBLISH those erroneous thoughts. That's why the bible is what it is today. Many truly believe it is inspired. Otherwise, if the bible writers had the same kind of track record of mistakes as does the Watchtower Society, the bible would be considered as nothing more than some "good book" and that is it. But to most people it is viewed as the infallible word of God. it gets everything correct. On the other hand, the very writings of the Watchtower Society (which also claims to be "food from God", his "mouthpiece" today, "God's Channel" etc), are filled with mistake after mistake and numerous inconsistencies and eventual embarrasments. Yet Aaron Lundstrom wants to conveniently just chalk it up to "human imperfection". That simply does not work for most thinking people. The Watchtower cannot get a free pass here on all those past and current mistakes and bad policies while claiming God has anointed them and is directing them and them only. Many JW's try to minimize the mistakes made by the Watchtower Society, as did I for many years. At least the ones I did know about. But you just can't get away with this that easy. How many people DIED solely due to those bad medical policies which eventually had to be dropped altogether? That's how bad they were, most had to be dropped, discarded, dumped because they were just that bad. Was God behind them? Did Jehovah say No Vaccinations for 23 years and then change his mind and say vaccinations are now okay to have? All the while vaccinations were stomping out polio, smallpox and so much more. Did God get it wrong? Did Jehovah say Organ Transplants are the same as "Cannibalism" and forbid them for 13 years, only to then change his mind and eventually say Organ Transplants are now okay to have? Did God Himself direct those bad policies only to have to drop them later on? And what about the Jehovah's Witnesses that died by following these policies? Only to have them reversed later. I have read some of these accounts. It breaks your heart to read them. How many people listened to all of the false end of the world specific dates, published in writing, missed predictions? 1914, 1925, 1975, before the end of the 20th century, before the generation of 1914 dies out and several more than this. Predictions which proved what? Every single one proved False. No hyperbole, all of them. Lives were ruined following the WT leadership with those as well. People gave up families, plans to have children, enjoyable careers... all for what ? For a message that proved untrue over and over again. How "faithful and discreet" is this? What does this say about the WT Society Organization to most people then? What does that say about ANY an organization? And wouldn't it be reasonable for thinking persons to expect more from a religion that makes the claims of God's Only True Channel Today? Is it a lack of faith on the part of intelligent people that reject the Watchtower Society based on so many bad policies and mistakes over the years along with numerous current bad policies? Or would it be irresponsible to just look the other way? Truth can stand up to any challenge. It can hold up to vigorous cross-examination. Yet the average JW knows very little of this past, and just goes along with whatever they are told. So did I. Do people such as myself and many others leave the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses because we have now been blinded and have a wicked heart? Or did we leave because they WERE blinded and NOW have all of the important information to make a better, more educated and complete decison? How does anybody just go from all these mistakes for the past 100 years made by the Watchtower Society, to the Watchtower Society is the "One True Faith"? The reason is simple; most Witnesses have no idea about these many things I have posted here, just like I never knew about them for 15 years as an active Witness. And when mistakes are eventually realized by Jehovah's Witnesses, and new information or a new direction has to replace the old mistaken information or direction by the Watchtower Society, then the Watchtower likes to conveniently call it, "New Light". As if God has somehow revealed something miraculous again. This works and even gets people excited for most Witnesses readily accept this information since they already believe God has chosen them alone to begin with. But one clear look at the reality would show most thinking people that "new light" has not been revealed at all; but rather, more bad information, mistaken policies, false predictions and wrong beliefs simply need to be replaced due to the realization that these old policies and beliefs are simply proven to not be true. The generation of 1914 never dying off for example. They had no choice BUT to drop that and find something to replace it with. And then changed it again. The recent change that the 144,000 has not been sealed but is still open. (After all the number of those partaking has only been going up.) Organ Transplants not ever being the same as cannibalism and allowing tens of thousands of people today the added opportunity to live life. On and on we could go filling pages worth of examples that prove new light never happened. The fact is that new light could more accurately be called blinking light. New light is usually the realization that the Governing Body was simply wrong to begin with. There are good people from all religions today. This is truly a fact. All religious organizations do make mistakes as well. The WT Society is actually worse than most however. So how can people say this is the one true religion today? How can anybody back such lofty claims as those up, with such a poor track record? I have yet to see that happen anywhere. Moses parted the Red Sea, manna fell from the sky, prophecies came true. Jesus walked on water, healed the sick, fed thousands, raised the dead and so much more. But the Watchtower Society has an entire history of mistaken policies that have been and still are forced on all Witnesses at the very real threat of disfellowshipping and being shunned for non-compliance. They also boastfully claim "one true faith', while condemning all other religions and people of those religions to destruction if not becoming JW's. For me today and most people that see all the facts there is nothing there to support such lofty and inflated claims as the Watchtower being chosen by God. The WT Society certainly is not dispensing food from God from what the record clearly shows. Because it is quite obvious that God would never be behind all those mistakes again and again along with numerous current unscriptural policies. Otherwise I would have never left the religion and have to suffer such steep consequences. I will reply soon in detail to your comments on blood and very specifically show why the Watchtower Society is Wrong on Blood Today.
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effe
Hi Vinny, I just read your letter and I'm impressed! You've managed to write down all of the most valuable arguments against the position on blood from the Society. I'm the webmaster of www.bloedkwestie.info (bloedkwestie means blood issue in dutch). It's a dutch, english and soon to be spanish website, and I was wondering if it was okay with you to put this letter on my website and translate it in dutch as well? Thanks for your answer, Effe
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Vinny
"I'm the webmaster of www.bloedkwestie.info (bloedkwestie means blood issue in dutch). It's a dutch, english and soon to be spanish website, and I was wondering if it was okay with you to put this letter on my website and translate it in dutch as well?"
**** Go for it Effe. The more JW's that can read the facts which show the JW blood policy is flawed the better. Thanks for asking.
Best,
Vinny -
Quandry
Vinny
The letter was well thought out, and covered the points in a concise manner. You also stated:
But then when we find out that those decisions had to be dropped altogether, reversed, adjusted, changed and even apologized for, we can clearly see that God was never behind them to begin with. They were wrong the first minute they came off of the presses. God was definitely never behind these many erroneous Watchtower policies despite claims to the contrary. Yes, what about when the WT said that vaccinations were like taking pus into your body? The poster who wrote a rebuttal to your letter would have been apostate if he did not mentally AGREE with this at the time, and refuse to have his children vaccinated!!! Few witnesses know that this medical direction was ever in the teachings of the WTS organization. I know I didn't before I was baptised in 1973. I wish I had known then what I know now.