Jonah's under water stomach vacation....a biblical fact ?

by Homerovah the Almighty 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mary
    Mary

    I don't know why, but I'm laughing my ass off at this entire thread.

    This is funny that this subject about Jonah and the whale----I mean, the shark has come up as I was thinking of this yesterday. First of all, I always find it annoying how the Writing Dept. draws pictures of a shark---not a whale, presumably just so they can be "different" than all the other religions who have related the story. What I find so bizarre about this is: How the hell would Jonah have been able to make it past the sharks' razor sharp teeth, unscathed and survive in an extremely tight space for 3 days?

    Even if you were talking about a Great White, it'd be pretty damn hard to just swallow a man down like an oyster:

    Poor Quint ......Anyway, my point is: even if you take the story of Jonah at face value, wouldn't it make the story slightly more believable that he got swallowed by a whale as opposed to a shark? At least there'd be more room in there to build a fire to keep your wooden body warm.

    In my opinion, the story is most likely allegorical. There seems to be several parallels in the story of Jonah that is actually speaking of the nation of Israel.

    Jonah pictures Israel, Jonah's failure to preach to Nineveh pictures Israel's failure to fulfill their duty to the surrounding nations, the whale that swallows Jonah and who is for all intents and purposes, dead for three day could picture Babylon which conquered or swallowed Israel into captivity and the whale spitting Jonah out and his 'resurrection' pictures Israel's restoration to their home. Jeremiah 51:31 describes Babylon of 'swallowing' Israel up 'like a monster' and that it "filled his stomach". Verse 44 says that God will 'bring forth out of his mouth that which he has swallowed up'----which sounds unerringly like the story of Jonah and which some view as evidence that this story is merely an allegory and not factual.

    There are actually many OT stories that even the Jews view as allegory, while religions like the WTS take it as literal fact.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    What I want to know is when did people start considering it to be factual account of something that really happened.

    Certainly by the time of Josephus (Antiquitates Judiacae, 9.208-214), who reported Jonah's adventure with the fish and preaching in Ninevah as historical events. There is a good article on this by Louis Feldman ("Josephus' Portrait of Jonah," in Studies in Josephus' Rewritten Bible, 1998) who shows that Josephus toned down the satirical aspects of the story -- omitting such things as Ninevah's wholesale repentance, animals wearing sackcloth, and the incident with the gourd plant. Josephus handles the difficulty of the inappropriate prayer by having Jonah deliver it after he was vomited out (whereas the LXX and later exegetes reworded the prayer to make it more appropriate). Similarly, he eliminates the comic image of Jonah sleeping and "snoring" (as per the LXX) during the tempest by having Jonah go down into the hold and lie down (not necessarily to go to sleep) in order to abstain from the idolatrous praying done by the pagan sailors (Antiquitates, 9.209). But Josephus is stuck with the fish story that is such an integral part of the Jonah narrative, and so he reports it matter-of-factly but qualifies it by saying that what he relates is how "the story has it" (Antiquitates, 9.213). The fish story however was widely used by pagans to sarcastically ridicule the beliefs of Christians (cf. Origen, Adversus Celsum 7.53; Augustine, Epistulae 7.53).

    Earlier allusions to the story do not clearly take it as literal. The author of Judith (second century BC) reuses the story of Ninevah's repentance in 4:9-15 (including the motif of animals wearing sackcloth), but since this was a work of fiction it is hardly evidence that the author thought Jonah to be historical. Similarly, a reviser of Tobit 4:3 replaced the reference to "Nahum" with "Jonah", but again this is within a piece of historical fiction. The gospels use the story of Jonah allegorically in Matthew 12:10, Luke 11:30-32, as typifying the "sign of Jonah" in Jesus. The reference to the coming resurrection of the men of Ninevah who "repented at the preaching of Jonah" (Luke 11:32) could be taken as presuming the historicity of the story, or it can be taken as an illustration without necessarily requiring a strictly historical basis of the Jonah story. It is worth recalling that outside conscious historiography, there was no sharp distinction between legend and history as we might have today. Paul for instance refered to the midrashic legend of the rock that followed the Israelites throughout the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4), and he used it as a didactic illustration, but this does not necessarily mean that he thought of the travelling rock as strictly historical. It is also worth noting that later Jewish midrash amplified the satirical content of the story even further and increased the number of fantastic elements of the story, cf. Pirqei de Rabbi Eliezer 10, which Yvonne Sherwood characterizes as a sort of Jewish Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea. My favorite comic moment is the one in wihch the sailors try to throw Jonah into the sea but they are stuck in a catch-22 dilemma of either killing themselves by keeping Jonah on board or killing a possibly innocent man by throwing him overboard, so they partially dunk him in the water (first to his knees, then to his navel, then to his neck, and then entirely) and take him out again in order to see if Jonah's god would be satisfied without throwing him entirely overboard, with the effect of making the sea agitated and then calming it and then making it agitated again, and then calming it again, over and over. The fish then gives Jonah an extensive tour of the underwater underworld, each location occasioned by a line of his psalm that he sings as he visits this realm. Another midrash (Midrash Jonah) has it that Jonah was so comfortable inside the fish that he didn't give his psalm even after three days, so God made a female fish swim alongside the male fish that had swallowed Jonah and she demanded it to spit out the prophet or she would swallow the other fish whole. The male fish then vomits out Jonah and the female fish swallows him, where Jonah discovers to his horror that this fish was pregnant with 365,000 baby fishes and being cramped with the slime and tons of baby fishes all over him, Jonah finally yielded up the prayer that God required. It is hard not to see this as the kind of satirical humor it is.

    One interesting theory is that Jonah originally was an excerpt from either the lost Midrash of the Book of Kings mentioned in 2 Chronicles 24:27 or the lost Words of the Seers mentioned in 2 Chronicles 33:19. This fits well with the fourth-century BC date of the Chronicler. This is especially tempting since the Chronicler mentions individual works like the Acts of Samuel the Seer, the Acts of Nathan the Prophet, the Acts of Gad the Seer, the Visions of Iddo the Seer, the Midrash of Prophet Iddo, etc. The original title of Jonah could well have been the Acts of Jonah the Prophet or the Midrash of Jonah the Prophet. The latter would have been rather appropriate for the kind of story found in Jonah, which (while not belonging to the later genre of midrashim) is haggadaic and evidences midrashic activity in weaving OT content to develop a new didactic story. If it was excerpted, one reason may have been to fill out the colection of Minor Prophets to the desired number of twelve. It is kind of the odd one out -- being mostly narrative and containing very litle of actual prophecy.

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    Interesting reading Leolaia, thanks , who says the bible doesn't have any humor in it

  • Quotes
    Quotes

    Jonah to Ninevah: "Repent, or God will smite you"

    Citizens Response: "Dude, you stink like old fish guts, you bum."

    ~Q

  • Snoozy
    Snoozy

    That raises another question in my mind...What about the "Parting of the sea?"..or The Walking on Water?"...Those always got me, I never could believe them..I just knew they could be explained somehow.

    Snoozy...

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    I have heard in the past of people having been swallowed by Whales and being spit out.

    This was back before computers.

    Some say it was a large fish or shark. But people say it has happened to others beside Jonah.

    http://www.liberty.edu/wwwadmin/includes/search/qanda/QandA_Results_elmertowns.cfm?Searched=&AID=274&DisplayResults=1

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v1/n1/great-fish

    http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/jonah.html

    People also say they saw dinnosuars in Europe in the middle ages.

  • avishai
    avishai

    Why is that shark eating Ronnie James Dio?

  • Homerovah the Almighty
    Homerovah the Almighty

    Wouldn't the whole story been better if the whale pooped out Jonah after 3 days and Jonah swam to shore......now that would have been a real miracle

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    A modern-day miracle: my copy of Aid to Bible Understanding opened automatically to JONAH, page 955, paragraph 5.

    Despite the clash between my current philosophy and that of yore, this tome holds a special place in my heart because I participated in its formation (no, not the bindery!). This has always been my favorite Watchtower "interpretation" of any Bible account. BTW, Leolaia, how many times does the word "great" appear in this, the longest run-on sentence ever put to paper?

    May your delight exceed mine:

    Some critics think it incredible that the Ninevites, including the king, responded to Jonah's preaching. (Jonah 3:5-9) In this regard the remarks of commentator C.F. Keil are of interest: "The powerful impression made upon the Ninevites by Jonah's preaching, so that the whole city repented in sackcloth and ashes, is quite intelligible, if we simply bear in mind the great susceptibility of Oriental races to emotion, the awe of one Supreme Being which is peculiar to all the heathen religions of Asia, and the great esteem in which soothsaying and oracles were held in Assyria from the very earliest times..., and if we also take into calculation that the circumstance that the appearance of a foreigner, who, without any conceivable personal interest, and with the most fearless boldness, disclosed to the great royal city its godless ways, and announced its destruction within a very short period with the confidence so characteristic of the God-sent prophets, could not fail to make a powerful impression upon the minds of the people, which would be all the stronger if the report of miraculous working of the prophets of Israel had penetrated to Ninevah." - Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament, The Twelve Minor Prophets, Vol. I, pp. 407, 408.

  • inkling
    inkling
    is quite intelligible, if we simply bear in mind the great susceptibility of Oriental races to emotion,

    Wow, racist much?

    I guess that's what the writers get for quoting a book written in 1868.

    Nothing quite like dusty 100 year old racism to prop up the perfect word of God.

    [inkling]

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