Beliefs are internal and external. We learn values from our families, cultures and communities. Religion teaches values and a set of beliefs. High control groups and cults dictate what one is supposed to believe and put faith in. The excel in guilt and emotional abuse. When one discovers the hypocrisy and emptiness found in such groups, one feels betrayed and is often repulsed. It is important to be comfortable with ourselves without denigrating others who do not share our beliefs. It does not make a difference what one's beliefs are, the importance of showing love to one's neighbor, demonstrating hospitality and valuing truth are universal regardless of one's culture. We all know the people we wish to be and strive to be that person. I am not the ideal person I strive to be but I'm lovable and likable.
True & purposeful belief.. from within or without ? Your answer please !
by caliber 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Satanus
Ok, to go on a some more;) The thing about assimilating beliefs w an external origin is that they are second hand, passed down through untold generations, from books, hearsay, etc. Not that persuing those sources are futile. But, they are only directional pointers to a seeker. Too many seekers stay w or worship the pointers. It's like parking at stop signs, yield signs, or traffic lights.
It seems to me that persuing the spiritual would be meaningless if we were not partly spiritual, ourselves. You need a phone to use the phone line, a computer plus adapter to get on the net. And so, the first step in exploring the spiritual would be to attempt to focuss on our own spiritual aspect.
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Homerovah the Almighty
I think the problem with the many belief systems as they are presented today is that they stringently out dated and are even considered immoral by modern standards
and they represent digressive oppressive toward the individual.
That being the case most people now have just shut them off and transgressed to newer more modern social values based on fairness and humility.
The gods are losing their power inculding the men who proclaimed they had the power of the gods
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SPAZnik
Hmmm, THE CONCEPTION OF BELIEF; where from? I would suggest that beliefs, like babies, are conceived of by forces both within and without. >>>---> I read somewhere recently that BELIEFS ARE SIMPLY THOUGHTS THAT WE ARE EMOTIONALLY ATTACHED TO (OR INVESTED IN). This made sense to me when I read it, so I adopted it. >>>---> >>>---> I guess I could postulate that such thought itself can originate from within or without (and often a combo of the two) but it seems to me that it must resonate within to be turned into a "belief". So I'd say FROM WITHIN because that is where the thought resonates with me emotionally and/or rationally in order to "conceive" of a belief. I'd also say FROM WITHOUT because much of the hard data and/or evidence often comes from without to inform my thoughts, resonate with my emotions, and mingle with my experiences to end up shaped into a "belief". Also from WITHOUT because it seems it is often mainly in the actual exercising or testing of the belief that it's 'truth' will be ultimately verified or otherwise informed or further shaped. Then again, all of this is recognized from WITHIN. >>>---> >>>---> >>>---> WHETHER A BELIEF IS TRUE & PURPOSEFUL seems to establish itself over time, generally; the TRUTH of a belief, simplistically put, is a very basic cause and effect, verifiable 'without', type thing. (I am reminded of the "by their fruits you will know them" script.) As for the PURPOSE a belief serves? Beliefs seem to me a bit like tools that can be utilized for countless purposes. --- Am I mixing my metaphors here? :O) --- Anyway, I guess it's ultimately up to our individual and collective consciences how we use belief and what consequences result, thereby informing future beliefs. >>>---> >>>---> >>>---> >>>---> On a more personal note, the further away from JW grooming I venture, the more 'okay' I feel about simply allowing my beliefs to ebb and flow and evolve "naturally" over time, WITHIN ME, rather than being 'dictated' from without. But as I mature I'm learning more and more about evidence and I'm hopeful this will reduce the number of times I am bamboozled. I still like hearing about others' relevant beliefs AT TIMES. Again, a script comes to mind: There is wisdom in many counsellors. :) Oh and by the way, I believe there are some great thoughts on this thread. Thanks for sharing, ppl.
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SixofNine
I'm not sure how a person could have a belief come "from within"?
I've spent years now on JW, and then exJW, discussion boards, and seen many a person glomm onto other forms of Christianity and many others follow Eastern or alternative spiritual paths.
What I've never seen is anyone come up with anything that was even remotely original. I have to speculate that that is because most everyone's beliefs are from "without". Sure, some people pick and chose from a spiritual pupu platter; but being different is not the same as being original.
Carrying the thought about just how rare original thought is a little further, I would say that the few times I've seen it, it's come in the form of a very concrete, physical (not spiritual) idea or concept, when someone with a brilliant mind thought "hmmm, maybe what we all believe about (X physical property or action) is wrong, maybe this would work better...".
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SPAZnik
So, Six, are you trying to say that belief coming 'from within' is tantamount to the immaculate conception? =)
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SixofNine
Pregnant pause as I wait for gawd to answer ;)
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Satanus
Six
'What I've never seen is anyone come up with anything that was even remotely original.'
Exactly. The socalled mystics have a common language about basically the same things. It's like noses, everyone's got one. We've had em for eons. If you described your nose, the origination would be coming from inside you. My own would be from my own impressions. Yet still, we would have a basic commonality. Similar thing w mediational practice. It's mostly internal. Compare that to reading about what the surface of the moon is like, for instance. The moon info is external. Reading about a god that noone has seen, who dwells somewhere far away, like the wt tells it, is even more external.
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SPAZnik
So what are you guyz saying; that there's nothing new under the sun? :O)
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caliber
Just got back now.. I'm surprised with the response... thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Now I
must go back and read them all !
Cal