Why is there evil

by d0rkyd00d 57 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  pomegranate

  >>This theory of God created animals with violent tendencies to represent what was going on in heaven is an interesting one to me. Where is your biblical basis for even starting to believe this?<<

  1 Cor 14:33
  33 for God is not a God of confusion
  
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  >>"Think about it.<<

  I do all the time.

  >>Lucifer gave us emotions.<<

  1. Lucifer is a very inaccurate name for Satan.
  2. God gave us emotions.

  >>He gave us a freedom that was not given to us by God...that of the capability of thinking evil thoughts and thus giving us that which we as a western society cherish the most; free will.<<

  This I totally 100% agree with, though I would not call it a capability of thinking evil thoughts, rather he caused the thoughts and the time to think the evil thoughts.

  >>That was not given to us by God,<<

  ditto ditto.

  >>but the so-called 'enemy of man'.<<

  Amen. Enemy of all God's creation.

  >>Yet the 'enemy of man' is the only angel capable of human emotions. And for this he was cast from heaven."<<

  I disagree here. All God's created beings are instilled with emotions. I believe you have a big chunk of the truth regarding "free will" though.

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  >>Pomegranate,
  You are very erudite in your explanations of my post. I respect the way you can give the rationale of each point.

  I may disagree with you, but enjoy your posts.

  All the best,<<

  Thank you for your kind words.

  I am glad there are some who can "see" the real spirit in which I post. Many would take such a post as, well, I guess demeaning. You should post your disagreements. You could teach me something.

  Merry Christmas to all.
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  d0rkyd00d

  33 for God is not a God of confusion

  /me doesn't understand. :(
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  pomegranate

  Ask questions.
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  patio34

  Hi Pomegranate,

  You said "many would take such a post as demeaning." Please don't take mine as such, if that was your reference.

  I didn't post my disagreement because I have very limited energy for disagreeing with people. Or what can degenerate into arguments. Arguing used to be a problem of mine and I refuse to start down that road now.

  I try to look at others' differing opinions as an anthropoligist or traveler from outer space might: as interesting, but not personally involved.

  It's a new philosophy of mine and after seeing some of the bitter arguments on this board, the philosophy is being reinforced! "Live and let live" and "I may disagree with you but respect that right (?)" and "We agree to disagree."

  I meant it when i said your posts were erudite IMO and easy to read. You make your points intelligently, logically, succinctly, and calmly. And you offer many scripture texts in support.

  Have a great day!
  Pat
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  patio34

  P. S. What I meant to say, is 'further' disagreements. Maybe I should take a debating skills class this summer to keep me from arguing...

  Pat
• 

  Seeker4

  Not sure if I can believe that some of the ideas posted in this discussion are serious or not!!

  Evil and Live being mirror images, which is supposed to explain something?? Death is a "being"?? Animal violence a metaphor for the spirit world??

  Whoa, some great thinkers in this thread!?!? I think a lot of your posts are a wonderful example of why we have to disregard the foolishness that comes with trying to make sense of the Bible.

  In thinking of evil and good, you might start with this:

  Why are the men who flew the planes into the World Trade Center and the men who dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, considered as both heroes and monsters of the worst kind by different people?

  S4
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  pomegranate

  >>Hi Pomegranate,
  You said "many would take such a post as demeaning." Please don't take mine as such, if that was your reference.<<

  Nope, I was refering to me and mine. Your spirit is quite pleasant even when disagreeing, which is an admirable way to be.

  >>I didn't post my disagreement because I have very limited energy for disagreeing with people. Or what can degenerate into arguments. Arguing used to be a problem of mine and I refuse to start down that road now.<<

  We have similar attitude, though sometimes I find myself in an occassional backslide. I gladly take correction. Mainly, I throw out on the table what I believe in a thread, evaluate others counter reasonings and beliefs, keep some, toss some (most actually ) and move on.

  >>I try to look at others' differing opinions as an anthropoligist or traveler from outer space might: as interesting, but not personally involved.<<

  Well, unfortunately, I am stuck here on earth and I am involved. So, I wanna know why I'm involved.

  >>It's a new philosophy of mine and after seeing some of the bitter arguments on this board, the philosophy is being reinforced! "Live and let live" and "I may disagree with you but respect that right (?)" and "We agree to disagree."<<

  I agree with that. Personally, I'm out to sharpen mine only. I do that by discussing it. If it has sharpened someone elses in the mean time fine...it was not my doing. Seeds are from God, planting is from God, watering is from God, growing is from God...I believe He uses others for three out of the four. The last one (growth) I believe is Him and Him alone, and He makes grow want ever He desires to grow. (ie Saul to Paul)

  >>I meant it when i said your posts were erudite IMO and easy to read. You make your points intelligently, logically, succinctly, and calmly. And you offer many scripture texts in support.<<

  I again, thank you for the overly kind words.

  What I type is what I believe. I believe everything has an answer. For me, answers have to connect logically. I will never accept another illogical answer/reason again...I hope I will be able (by the grace of God) put the puzzle together. If I do, it was Him that did it for me. Because He really told me how:

  Prov 2:3-6
  3 and if you call out for insight
  and cry aloud for understanding,
  4 and if you look for it as for silver
  and search for it as for hidden treasure,
  5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD
  and find the knowledge of God.
  6 For the LORD gives wisdom,
  and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.

  Dan 2:21
  He gives wisdom to the wise
  and knowledge to the discerning.

  I believe it's on an idividual basis. I believe God loves individuals not organizations...as even individuals are not disorganized.

  >>P. S. What I meant to say, is 'further' disagreements. Maybe I should take a debating skills class this summer to keep me from arguing...
  Pat<<

  Relax. You are not (or no longer ) an argumentative.
  
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  >>Not sure if I can believe that some of the ideas posted in this discussion are serious or not!!<<

  Put it to the test. Put forth a counter point. So far, all you have shown is your ignorance. Disagreeing without reason is like building a house with no foundation. That's ignorant. Now, come back in with some well back reasoning and let's see your position.

  >>Why are the men who flew the planes into the World Trade Center and the men who dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, considered as both heroes and monsters of the worst kind by different people?<<

  Good and Bad. It's the world I know. It's the world I know.

  Gen 2:9
  In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good (Psalms 34:8) and evil (Isaiah 5:20).

  Good and Bad is what the world was in when God began creating earth and mankind. What we need, is out with the bad.
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  Sirona

  Hi

  Has anyone ever considered that so called "evil" is necessary?

  Without the "negative" how would we know the "positive" in its truest sense? Would we appreciate anything? If every day was sunny, every meal was perfect, every person said perfect things at the perfect time...etc. I believe we would not appreciate any of it, neither would we make progress. We have to fail to learn sometimes, we have to argue to come to agreement, we have to see death to appreciate life, feel pain to understand the beauty of health and to protect our bodies.

  On a very basic level, we might have relationships and perhaps not appreciate those around us, yet in losing them we realise poignantly their value. We learn to appreciate others.

  There would be no such word as "day" if there were no "night".

  Then to the very "evil" things...murders, children dying. Well, noone really knows the purpose of this. Some theorise that we have incarnations, and choose some major life experiences as learning in this incarnation. This may or may not be true.

  I tend to see good and bad as necessary polarity, without one, the other means nothing.

  Sirona

  ** http://www.religioustolerance.org **
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  Seeker4

  Appreciate your offer to jump into the fray here, Pom, but I'm afraid your Bible-based worldview makes me think that I've better use for my time right now. I've posted on dozens of other discussions here on this board, but when the basis for the discussion requires that one literally believe in a mythological world of gods and demons and Gardens of Eden, I find that that was a worldview I long ago left behind and simply cannot return to. Logic and reasoning really have nothing to do with this discussion, I'm afraid.

  To illustrate my thinking on your debate here: It might be lots of fun to speculate about how Santa Claus gets all those presents in that sleigh, and how the reindeer really fly, and how does 'ol Santa get them distributed worldwide in just one night; and to base that discussion on the words in the poem "The Night Before Christmas." But truthfully, it's all sort of meaningless.

  But hey, good luck in the discussion. And I do believe that the question you're debating is a worthy one. Maybe someone could also tell us how Santa feels about it, as they understand from being filled with Santa-spirit and having that personal relationship with Santa.

  S4
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  pomegranate

  >>>Appreciate your offer to jump into the fray here, Pom, but I'm afraid your Bible-based worldview makes me think that I've better use for my time right now. I've posted on dozens of other discussions here on this board, but when the basis for the discussion requires that one literally believe in a mythological world of gods and demons and Gardens of Eden, I find that that was a worldview I long ago left behind and simply cannot return to. Logic and reasoning really have nothing to do with this discussion, I'm afraid.<<

  Then what was your purpose in posting, just to interject your disagreement without basis? I mean, someone with all this valuable time that you have better use for, it sounds kind of hypocritical.

  >>To illustrate my thinking on your debate here: It might be lots of fun to speculate about how Santa Claus gets all those presents in that sleigh, and how the reindeer really fly, and how does 'ol Santa get them distributed worldwide in just one night; and to base that discussion on the words in the poem "The Night Before Christmas." But truthfully, it's all sort of meaningless.<<

  With Santa yes. With life and death no. Pretty flimsy foundation I might add.

  >>But hey, good luck in the discussion. And I do believe that the question you're debating is a worthy one. Maybe someone could also tell us how Santa feels about it, as they understand from being filled with Santa-spirit and having that personal relationship with Santa.<<

  Merry Christmas