Why is there evil

by d0rkyd00d 57 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  pomegranate

  >>Has anyone ever considered that so called "evil" is necessary?<<

  Probably Satan. That's why he created it.

  >>Without the "negative" how would we know the "positive" in its truest sense?<<

  God would tell us.

  >>Would we appreciate anything?<

  Let's talk about love and young children. Do they understand hate, the kind that crashes airplanes into buildings? No they don't. Heck, most adults would admit their own lack of understanding in that regard.

  The point is, do children need to know and understand HATE in order to FEEL LOVE? TO KNOW LOVE? TO UNDERSTAND LOVE? No they don't.

  LOVE needs no contrasting darkness in order for it to be known that LOVE IS GOOD. LOVE comes first, because LOVE WAS FIRST.

  >>If every day was sunny, every meal was perfect, every person said perfect things at the perfect time...etc. I believe we would not appreciate any of it, neither would we make progress.<<

  I believe all the things you said above are not "evil." We are talking about EVIL not personal differences between GOOD things. For instance, a meal that was not perfect could still be not perfect and NOT be evil. AS a matter of fact, the meal would be rather good because it would certainly sustain life. As far as rainy days go, some people LIKE THEM, and they are not evil because vegetation needs water.

  >>We have to fail to learn sometimes, we have to argue to come to agreement, we have to see death to appreciate life, feel pain to understand the beauty of health and to protect our bodies.<<

  Now your getting somewhere..."we have to see death to appreciate life"

  Within the spirit realm, God initially never created the angelic realm with the POTENTIAL to die. So, with a creature like Satan, he thought his escapades of EVIL could go unanswered.

  On to God's next creation. Mankind. He began this creation CREATED with the potential to DIE. In order for a God who now became JUST to make that particualr creation UNDERSTAND death, THEY HAD TO SEE DEATH in order to appreciate life.

  Vegetation, though inanimate, when alive is beautiful. When it dies, it turns brown and ugly, and disappers.

  Animals. The animals died. Adam and Eve were put into a creation that DIED all around them. The plants died. The animals DIED TOO. In order for other living things to live, something had to die. Animals killed each other.

  But......even with death ALL around Adam and Eve, and the sentence for disobedience to a simple LAW was they would have the same destiny as the plants and animals, EVIL was SO CORRUPTING, that it made appreciation of LIFE and the LIFE GIVER disappear.

  >>On a very basic level, we might have relationships and perhaps not appreciate those around us, yet in losing them we realise poignantly their value. We learn to appreciate others.<<

  That is called wisdom. Finally "knowing" what it really is all about to be in a world of Good (God) and Evil (Satan).

  One of them has to go.

  >>There would be no such word as "day" if there were no "night".<<

  Light does not need darkness. Darkness needs light. Light comes first. As a matter of fact, WITHOUT light, there is no darkness.

  God will wipe out the NIGHT. AS the "night" was the symbol of Satan and his evil.

  Then "light" will then become the only thing with real meaning to all creation...God is light:

  Rev 22:5
  5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

  I believe the creation of this old physical heavens and earth were temporary. We were placed here either alive in these "tents" or fallen asleep in death until the issue of Good and Bad can be finalized.
• 

  d0rkyd00d

  My question to you pom is where does the Bible mention ANYTHING about the troubles in heaven being represented through animals? I'm not saying it's a bad theory, but I don't know where you made the connection using scriptures. Also, i agree with the post saying without bad we wouldn't appreciate the good. I've often thought about that, so kudos, i agree totally. I always worried about not feeling sadness on paradise earth, because it is an emotion I like, maybe just because it is an EMOTION, one not dealing with perfection. I need to be sad sometimes.\

  Speaking of concrete evidence, I'd also like to mention something I learned in my AP Language class. You cannot prove a fact. You can only prove your perception of truth. Prove the fact God exists; to be honest, you can't, which is why the "fact" of God existing will never be strong. Have i gone far enough off on a tangent here? :-)

  "No cool quote yet. but i'll think of one soon."
• 

  d0rkyd00d

  P.S. Pom, good post above mine. Sorry i didn't read it until after i had already posted, but u make some good points. KudOs!
• 

  siegswife

  When the light shines in the darkness, it's no longer darkness. If the Light will do away with Darkness completely, then Darkness will be Light. The Darkness will always be where the Light doesn't or won't shine. If there is ever a point when the Darkness is done away with by the Light shining there, it won't be Darkness anymore. Does that mean you believe in Universal salvation?
• 

  pomegranate

  >>My question to you pom is where does the Bible mention ANYTHING about the troubles in heaven being represented through animals? I'm not saying it's a bad theory, but I don't know where you made the connection using scriptures.<<

  Scriptures per say, hardcore SEE!! LOOK LOOK!!

  There is NOTHING I could show DIRECTLY in then Bible that gives me my understanding. It's more reasoning from between the Bible's words and what I see around me now in creation.

  The earth's "cycles" as they are right now have to be just the way God created them in Eden. For instance, the nitrogen cycle (Life/Death.) The earth (life) THRIVES on this principle of biology. The earth (life) could NOT exist without this FOUNDATIONAL principle of the death of one thing, giving life to another. The two F's. Food and fertilizer. Both represent death and decay. Both give life to another living thing.

  It's also another reason why evolution can't be true. The nitrogen cycle stops it from being true. Food/fertilizer. They are BOTH life previous. Without food/fertilizer (previous life), there is no after life, the cycle stops. Living things need food. Food is previous living things dead on ALL levels, even the molecular. So, where did the first food come from?

  One of my premises for the dinosaurs was God using them as a huge BIOLOGICAL nitrogen cycle jumpstart. Huge massive bodies consuming large quantities of vegetation with voracious appetites, crapping these huge piles of bilogical wastes only to break down biologically and become food for the following vegetative generations...then they too, the dinosaurs with their massive muscular bodies, eliminated quickly in a mysterious destruction only to decay into the earth's crust as a motherlode of subsequent food and fertilizer and oil and, well a grab bag of wonderful stuff for the planet created on a foundation of death.

  Follow?? Am I going to deep???

  I think you can see that the depths of this type of open discussion and free thinking are a very very wide open door. I found the open door to be very good.

  Mark 12:27
  27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living.

  See...this always bothered me. WHY? Why would a LIVING God, the God of the living, create ANYTHING...ANYTHING AT ALL to die. I mean, even the smallest molecular cell in all it's vast complexity, to be made only to evetually die??? Why did this God of the living create this way? Something is wrong. Very very wrong...

  >>You cannot prove a fact. You can only prove your perception of truth. Prove the fact God exists; to be honest, you can't, which is why the "fact" of God existing will never be strong. Have i gone far enough off on a tangent here? :-)<<

  Not bad!! Actually, I believe that train of thought to be fairly accurate. I can't prove God exists, that's His job. Weak people like me need faith.

  ************************************8
  >>When the light shines in the darkness, it's no longer darkness.<<

  Darkness is destroyed by light. Darkness has no power over light. Rather the light over powers the darkness.

  >>If the Light will do away with Darkness completely, then Darkness will be Light.<<

  Darkness will be done away with by the light. They cannot be "pals."

  2 Cor 6:14-15
  Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

  >>The Darkness will always be where the Light doesn't or won't shine.<<

  Soon the light will shine in every corner and expose the darkness and those that like to frolic in it's cover.

  Job 12:22
  22 He reveals the deep things of darkness
  and brings deep shadows into the light.

  Dan 2:22
  22 He reveals deep and hidden things;
  he knows what lies in darkness,
  and light dwells with him.

  Eph 5:10-14
  11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible.

  >>If there is ever a point when the Darkness is done away with by the Light shining there, it won't be Darkness anymore. Does that mean you believe in Universal salvation?<<

  No.

  Isa 26:10-11
  10 Though grace is shown to the wicked,
  they do not learn righteousness;
  even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil
  and regard not the majesty of the LORD.
  11 O LORD, your hand is lifted high,
  but they do not see it.
  Let them see your zeal for your people and be put to shame;
  let the fire reserved for your enemies consume them.

  Isa 26:14
  14 They are now dead, they live no more;
  those departed spirits do not rise.
  You punished them and brought them to ruin;
  you wiped out all memory of them.

  I believe the God of the Bible is not a God of universal salvation.
• 

  siegswife

  Ephesians 5:13 Now all things that are being reproved are made manifest by the light, for everything that is made manifest is light.
• 

  pomegranate

  Context.

  Eph 5:8-14
  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible.

  Paul is talking about the ones God chose out of the dark, right?

  I believe the KJ may be a little off on their rendering. the above is the NIV. Comparing both to the word for word Greek, I believe the NIV rendering is better. It is pretty easy to see. Want me to do a word for word English to Greek??
• 

  siegswife

  New International Version (NIV)

  Ephesians 5
  8
  For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
  9
  (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)
  10
  and find out what pleases the Lord.
  11
  Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
  12
  For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.
  13
  But everything exposed by the light becomes visible,
  14
  for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."

  New American Standard Bible (NASB)

  Ephesians 5
  8
  for <*1> you were formerly <*2> darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as <*3> children of Light
  9
  (for <*4> the fruit of the Light consists in all <*5> goodness and righteousness and truth),
  10
  [1] <*6> trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.
  11
  <*7> Do not participate in the unfruitful <*8> deeds of <*9> darkness, but instead even [2] <*10> expose them;
  12
  for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.
  13
  But all things become visible <*11> when they are [3] exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.
  14
  For this reason [4] it says, ""<*12> Awake, sleeper, And arise from <*13> the dead, And Christ <*14> will shine on you.''

  Ephesians 5:8-14 :: New Living Translation (NLT)

  Ephesians 5
  8For though your hearts were once full of darkness, now you are full of light from the Lord, and your behavior should show it! 9For this light within you produces only what is good and right and true.
  10Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, rebuke and expose them. 12It is shameful even to talk about the things that ungodly people do in secret. 13But when the light shines on them, it becomes clear how evil these things are. 14And where your light shines, it will expose their evil deeds. This is why it is said,

  "Awake, O sleeper,
  rise up from the dead,
  and Christ will give you light."

  King James
  Ephesians 5
  8
  For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
  9
  (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
  10
  Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
  11
  And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
  12
  For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
  13
  But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
  14
  Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

  ***It definitely sounds like reproof brings things into the light for the purpose of 'waking them up'. Bringing them into the light.
• 

  pomegranate

  John 3:19-21
  20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
• 

  siegswife

  So they stay in the dark? Then darkness remains darkness. If darkness is exposed to the light, it becomes light. The purpose of reproof is a wakeup call. Actually, a resurrection from death in context to the scripture in Ephesians. Death is darkness.