Any Vegans on the Board? (page 6)

PrimateDave

I'm in Puerto Rico, beksbks. There are the typical supermarkets, malls, and Wal-Marts here. It's just that imported foods here cost more than I was used to back in the States. I like soy milk, for instance, but the price is outrageous to me. I'm not a rich person. Some years ago when I lived in the States I made my own soy yogurt. I must admit I've never been a fan of tofu, so I haven't looked for it. Here, there is no shortage of rice and beans. I just got a pressure cooker. My latest batch of black beans is yummy! In the past I have dabbled with dietary changes, but in my time in Puerto Rico I have been somewhat lax, though I have pretty much weaned myself off ice cream in the past year.

Dave

beksbks

Damn Dave, can I send you a case of soy milk? I live in California, and I have thought many times about moving back east, but losing out on all the fresh stuff available here as well as all the ethnic choices makes me wonder if I could handle it. Do you have things like "Boca Burgers" and soy cheese and such?

Any kind of beans, with garlic, onions, chilis, whatever herbs you like, tomatoes.......................and any other veggies you can throw in is a great meal with some brown rice or whole wheat muffins or corn tortillas.

I'll have to start thinking about the stuff I make, and how it could be modified.

Oh, avocados, olive oil, and nuts should be on hand at all times.

inkling

Do you think we are better off eating a largely plant based diet with small amounts of animal derived food?

This seems reasonable.

Like the cover of the book of the "In Defence of Food". (Same person who wrote the (I hear excellent) book "The Omnivores Dilemma") :

Eat food.
Not too much.
Mostly plants.

It seems to me that by the measure of health (if not happiness) we modern humans tend to eat quite a bit
too much meat. And likely cheese/butter too, if even only for reason of high fat content.

Dave, do you plan on taking B12 supplements?

I have grave concerns about industrial scale animal "farming."

Yeah, me too.

I used to love Dr. Pepper. Then I moved down to Coke and Pepsi. Finally, I was buying diet 7-UP.

Do those drinks have increasingly less sugar, or was is just a psychological weaning process?

I'm trying stevia as a naturally derived sugar substitute.

What does that taste like anyway? Do you have concerns with "Splenda" and the like?

jaguarbass:

Hello Dave, I agree with your concern. I currently eat meat, because it is convenient .

especially if you have a space ship and a tractor beam....

[inkling]

inkling

here is another straight-forward but seemingly well informed discussion on the matter:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/674/are-humans-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-by-nature

(hmm... can't make it clickable)

[inkling]

beksbks

Man, read some of the research on diet soda. The one and only reason to drink it (low calorie) seems to backfire. Something about the way the body reacts to ultra sweet zero calorie. Bad stuff all the way around.

Stevia is actually a natural plant. I find it to have a slightly bitter aftertaste, not a big fan. I figure I'll just avoid sweets for the most part, and on occasion indulge in maple syrup, honey, and even more occasionally sugar.

Eat food.
Not too much.
Mostly plants.

I agree with this wholeheartedly!! But I would add, whole, unrefined, un pre prepared, and organic/free range/grass fed whenever reasonable (which is not much considering expense).

Black Sheep

If anyone tells you that you can obtain sufficient vitamin B12 from non-animal sources challenge them to prove it.

Personally, I do believe that veganism, and especially all raw veganism, has medicinal value.

I also believe that there are side effects that proponents of veganism conveniently forget to tell you.

There are traps for the unwary.

Initially, you may experience some benefits, but these may wear off as time goes on. It is easy to fool yourself into thinking that the reason the benefits are no longer apparent is that you are failing to be strict enough. Your cult leaders will encourage this belief. You may try harder but the benefits you hoped for don't quite reach your expectations and you start to have new problems. Your cult leaders tell you that you are not strict enough.

You will forget that you have been there before. Veganism is diet, not religion.

Proceed with caution

Cheers

Chris

PrimateDave

Thanks for the warning Chris. I have taken sublingual B12 tables before. They taste better than termites.

I am realistic. Everyone dies. Vegetarians, Vegans, Raw Foodists, Fruitarians, they all get sick too. They even get cancer and have heart attacks and strokes.

However, the real danger in my opinion is black and white, all or nothing thinking. Everything exists on a continuum. Nothing taken to extremes is likely to be healthy in the long term. I am setting certain goals for myself that involve a shift in food priorities away from predominantly refined foods and meats to basic foods and plants. I call it Vegan because that is what it most resembles in my view. I will allow myself to indulge from time to time in my old favorite foods. This is not a religion.

There is no perfect diet that works best for everyone. That doesn't mean I shouldn't try to find something that works better for me. It may be a case of two steps forward and one step back, but I'll still call that progress. In the end I will at least speak from experience and not rely on the anecdotes of others.

inkling, I have always had a "sweet tooth." I think Dr. Pepper is about the sweetest soft drink I have tried. Perhaps my sweet tooth has been tempered with age. I have been using a half cup of sugar in a gallon of iced tea. I'm using a very small amount of stevia because it is relatively expensive. I'm using it more as a condiment than a main ingredient. At that level of usage I detect a light sweetness and am not finding any aftertaste at all. It ain't my grandma's iced tea, that's for sure!

Dave

PrimateDave

"Furthermore, a little of this vitamin [B-12] goes a long, long way. The body can store it for at least 5 years, maybe longer, so there's virtually always adequate amounts for anyone who occasionally eats meat or dairy products. In fact, there's evidence that vegans who previously ate animal-based food may have vitamin B-12 stores that will not be depleted for 20 to 30 years or more." -Charles R. Attwood, M.D., F.A.A.P.

I am beginning to suspect that this worry about B-12 is another non-issue, just like the myth of adequate dietary protein, designed to make people feel uncomfortable about attempting a pure vegetarian diet.

Dave

Farkel

I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat rabbit food!

Farkel

beksbks

Primate Dave, you have a PM

Any Vegans on the Board?

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