Jacob wrestles with an angel

by LockedChaos 46 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • middleman
    middleman
    Jacob Wrestles With God

    22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two maidservants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."
    But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."

    27 The man asked him, "What is your name?"
    "Jacob," he answered.

    28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, [e] because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

    29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."
    But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there.

    30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, [f] saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

    From my studies on this passage the "angel" was Jesus pre-incarnate (angel of the lord), hence Jacob naming the place Penial. We know from scripture that "no one can see God (in this life-seeing the father) and live so the "God" that Jacob saw was Jesus.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Narkissos makes some cogent points as usual. The 'lhym in v. 29 is in parallelism with 'nshym "men", which lends to reading 'lhym as "gods" rather than "God," and it is also worth noting that the same seems to be true with the Mahanaim tradition in v. 1-2, which has a rather difficult relationship with the Jabbok tale. There the ml'ky-'lhym confront Jacob not far from the Jabbok (v. 1), and while the term can mean either "messengers of God" or "messengers of the gods," the next verse refers to them as the mchnh-'lhym which more naturally has a collective sense of "camp of the gods" (cf. "camp of Israel" in Exodus 14:19, "camp of the Levites" in Numbers 2:17, "camp of the sons of Judah" in Numbers 10:14, "camp of the sons of Dan" in Numbers 10:25, "camp of the Philistines" in 1 Samuel 17:46, 28:5, "camp of Aram" in 2 Kings 7:6, etc.). The Mahanaim tradition seems to be a fragmentary doublet of the Jabbok story, as it has a number of features in common: (1) The messengers/angels of 'lhym "meet" (pn`) Jacob at Mahanaim, and this verb often has more of a sense of "meet with hostility" or "oppose" (cf. Judges 8:21, 15:12, 18:25, 1 Samuel 22:17, 2 Samuel 1:15, 1 Kings 2:25), and the combination of this verb with mchnh "military camp" is especially suggestive of a hostile encounter. So here is a probable second reference to a hostile encounter between Jacob and the 'lhym, (2) The explanation of the name Mahanaim (Hebrew mchnym), referring to the "two camps" of Jacob and the divine ml'kym, has a resonance with the subsequent Jabbok story, wherein Jacob divides his company into shny mchnwt "two camps" (v. 7), (3) The reference to divine ml'kym of v. 1 is followed straight on with references to human mlk'ym sent by Jacob in v. 3. It is thus possible that the redactor here is combining two traditional stories about how two different toponyms got their names (Mahanaim, Jabbok), and which invoked a common tradition in their own ways. So the origin of the name Mahanaim has two explanations in the text: it could refer either to the two camps of Jacob and the messengers of the gods that confronted him, or it could refer to the two camps that Jacob split his own company into. Mahanaim and the Jabbok seem to both be attached to stories about a hostile encounter between Jacob and divine gods/angels. The Mahanaim story is extremely laconic and may have been truncated in favor of the Jabbok narrative. The Jabbok story does not make geographical sense in its present context (and it is pretty odd for Jacob to undertake the dangerous crossing in the darkness of night), particularly the relationship between v. 22-32 and the preceding narrative in v. 3-21, so this might be a sign that it originally belonged to another context. There is also a relationship between these two pericopes, as the confrontation that Jacob fears with Esau is realized with the "man" he wrestles with in the next story, and similarly, he looks forward to "seeing the face of [Esau]" ('r'h pnyw) in v. 20 and the statement in v. 30 that Jacob "saw" (r'yty) the gods/God pnym 'l-pnym "face to face" in his hostile encounter (cf. 33:10 where the two are brought together).

    Notice the heavy wordplay in v. 22-32, characteristic of J. At the ybq "Jabbok" (v. 22), y`qb "Jacob" (v. 24) y'qb "wrestles" (v. 24) an unknown man. The passage also gives popular etymologies for Peniel and Israel. The latter is explained in a way contrary to the actual construction of the name: yshr'l "Israel" means "El prevails" and not "one who has prevailed over El".

  • LockedChaos
    LockedChaos

    Appreciate everyone's input

    From the docterinal

    to the technical

    Liked the pictures too

  • IP_SEC
    IP_SEC

    cameod's a girl? She sound almost crazy enough to put up with me.

  • truthsetsonefree
    truthsetsonefree

    Another whacky Bible tale INMO, for all the above mentioned reasons.

    Isaac

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    LOL at IP Sec.

    You so bad!

    Sylvia

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    Charles T. Russell, in a 1891 letter to Baron (Lord) Rothschild, mailed from Palestine, outlined possible courses of action that could be taken to establish the Jews in Palestine. Russell’s letters praised the Rothschild’s money which established Jewish colonies in Palestine. Russell writes Rothschild, ,,What is needed here, therefore, next to water and cleanliness, is a good government which will protect the poor from the ravenous and the wealthy. Banking institutions on sound bases, and doing business honorably, are also greatly needed " Russell continues, "May the God of Jacob direct you, my dear Sir, and all interested with you in the deliverance and prosperity of Israel, and blessed will they be who, to any extent, yield themselves as his servants in fulfilling his will as predicted."(14)

    Curious to know, why does C.T. Russell refer to "The God of Jacob" instead of Jehovah? And besides, I have heard "god of abraham" more frequently as a term than god of Jacob. Was this a way to placate his funder geneticists?

    So nobody ever answered this question. Were there other written references where Russell referred to "god of Jacob" instead of Jehovah? Why would he use Jacob as a reference instead of Moses or Abraham? Since he thought the name of jehovah was of such utmost importance why did he refer to the geneticist Jacob?

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