Perry, my point was that you die either way, whether you live life on your own terms, or slave for man, or devote yourself to an imaginary being. So what sounds most attractive to you?
God punishes to the 3rd and 4th Generation! How nice!
by Number1Anarchist 160 Replies latest watchtower bible
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hamilcarr
How does self-control relate to the source of human rights?
I don't believe our life only consists of doing what someone else says as you seem to indicate in a previous post. Is it possible I have a more positive (though from your perspective utopian) perspective on life?
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Perry
One needs extensive theological reasoning to overcome this basic intuition.
All it takes is knowledge of God's authority. While man could never do this to his fellow man with any kind of justification, God can because we do not have ANY right to life at all. All are under a death sentence. We can't even obey the most basic of tenets: judge not lest ye be judged.
And so, judgment it is for man. He can choose to climb up on that cross with God and be judged and washed in the blood there ...or, appear before the Great White Throne... alone with only his record of "goodness".
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hamilcarr
I know Perry, I'm well aware of your viewpoints but I'm wondering whether you agree with the first part of my statement in post 1247.
Does it disgust you at face value?
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Finally-Free
People die all the time because of what Eve and then Adam did much more than to just 3 & 4 generations. Why are you not unhappy with them?
Why be angry with Adam and Eve? It makes more sense to be unimpressed by a "God" who pronounces a death sentence on countless generations of humans who weren't even born yet. Newborn infants are under a sentence of death before they can walk, talk, or reason, let alone "sin". If an almightly, wise, and loving god can't come up with a better solution than that he most certainly cannot ever earn my worship.
The threat of "worship me or die" makes sense. He's proven himself incapable of earning worship in any other way.
W
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Perry
Perry, my point was that you die either way,
According to God, you had it right the first time:
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name [Jesus not Jehovah]. - John 1:12
Be it known unto you all… that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth …there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. – Acts 4: 10-12
Many have found it helpful to re-read the above scriptures several times until they can fully grasp its meaning. For the believer, Jesus has total power to forgive sin (Matt. 9:6) and a believer will never be condemned. Scripturally, this is literally what the believer believes in. Notice the present and past tense in these additional scriptures:
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus - Romans 8:1
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life - John 5: 24
We know that we have passed from death unto life -1 John 3: 14
Isn’t that good news? This is the gospel that was originally delivered unto the first Christians. It cannot be changed without it being “another gospel” (Gal. 1: 6, 7). This does not mean however that believers are not judged. Remember, it is man’s destiny to face judgment. Believer and unbeliever alike are both appointed to such a fate:
…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: - Hebrews 9: 27
However, at the Judgment Seat of Christ, unlike the Great White Throne Judgment, the judgment is for rewards, not condemnation. The rewards are based on how faithfully believers served Christ the King (2 Timothy 2:5). The things believers will likely be judged on are how well they obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious they were overcoming sin (Romans 6:1-4), how well they controlled their tongues (James 3:1-9), etc. Speaking to born again believers, Paul makes this point clear:
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? - 1 Cor. 3: 14 – 16So, for the born-again believer who has the spirit of God living inside him as a deposit of the full perfection to come, he might suffer loss of rewards, yet clearly he himself will still be saved. This teaching removes (well-founded) fear between man and God and paves the way for God to perfect the believer. (1 John 4:18) (Rom. 8:29) Isn’t that Good News? Furthermore, the Bible speaks of believers receiving crowns for different things based on how faithfully they served Christ:
an incorruptible crown - 1 Corinthians 9:25
crown of joy - Philippians 4:1
crown of rejoicing - 1 Thessalonians 2:19
crown of righteousness - 2 Timothy 4:8
crown of life - James 1:12
crown of glory - 1 Peter 5:4
hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. – Rev. 3:11That last scripture above indicates that believers can lose crowns (rewards); but they cannot lose their salvation. (Compare with John 10: 28) While the scriptures do not elaborate on exactly what the crowns entail, we can be sure that when the Creator of the universe bestows a reward, that it will not be a cheap gift. But rather, will likely involve inestimable beauty and delight to its recipient.
So you had it right the first time. Obeying any other authority will not offer choice. It is an OR & AND.
Of course man cannot obey God (OR ANY OTHER AUTHORITY FOR THAT MATTER). So, the believer is born again so he doesn't have to work at being good.... goodness just starts happening because of the New Life inside. No fear of punishment whatsoever...all that having been taken away. Only love left. So the believer becomes all the things he always wanted to become, but was unable to, and rightly gives the credit back to God.
Everybody wins...Yea
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Perry
Finally Free,
Lots of emotive material here. That's why accuracy is important.... no matter how much we disagree. The choice wasn't worship me or die. It was obey me or die....as pointed out. The only other option from any other source of authority is: obey me and die.
Keep in mind that Jesus said we had to be like kids to enter the kingdom. Children are very trusting. BELIEF ALONE saved Abraham. Many believe children are exempt from punishment.
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Number1Anarchist
Perry probly defended the Watchtower the same way he just changed teams. You can't argue with these loons. He takes the bible as the literal word of God! You went from being a Watchtower Zombie to a Born Again Zombie! Since the Born Againers believe you will burn in hell for all eternity we know that you have been baptised into this religion and fully agree with that teaching.
We will all be burning forever and ever while you are floating on a cloud with God. Hahahahhahahahaha You are sick dude. What can a human possible do to deserve torment for all eternity? Wow perry you don't question anything. You'd make a great Zombie follower for any religion.
Hit your parents and be killed!
Exodus 21:15 (21st Century King James Version)
15 "And he that smiteth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death.
Tease the prophet and have him send bears to maul you to death!
2 Kings 2:23-24 (New King James Version)
23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!”
24 So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. 1 Kings 20:35-36
God Will Kill Children
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children Hosea 9:11-16
God Promises More Killing
I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
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Finally-Free
See you guys later. I need to go out and hunt for foreskins. Maybe then I can buy myself a new wife to push this damned vacuum cleaner around the house. I'm sure God will still love me afterwards.
W
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Perry
Perry probly defended the Watchtower the same way he just changed teams. You can't argue with these loons. He takes the bible as the literal word of God!
You may not like my answers but at least I am willing to explain my position, even as I try to demonstrate the inferiority of unbelief. BTW, I am still waiting on the two questions I asked you several times. Shall I ask you again?
Am I a loon? How looney is it for an atheist to spend hours hurling invective at God? Think about it.