Sin (page 3)

cameo-d

How do you view sin?

From the parking lot, with my binoculars. Funny how people in high rises think no body can see "way up there"! Ha.

I have not actually viewed sin in many years.

Farkel

:What determines which sins are forgivable and which are not?

You're asking the wrong question. The real question should be (assuming the existence of a Divine Being), why should anything humans do even need "forgiveness" from a Divine Being? Or, at the very least, why should anything humans do, NOT be forgiven by a Divine Being?

Only a shitty Divine Being couldn't forgive.

Farkel

desib77

Actually Farkel, I have asked that many times. I don't really understand why in the very beginning when Adam and Eve sinned why God would not just scrap the whole thing and create a new Adam and Eve that wouldn't or something along those lines. The whole process of sin and the need for a ransom from Him to Him for our sins has confused me for quite a while.

JimmyPage

An elder in my congregation posed the question from the platform: "How do you know if you've committed the unforgivable sin?"

His answer: "Simple. If you're still alive after Armageddon you haven't committed the unforgivable sin." Boy am I glad he cleared that up!

Narkissos

Biblical "sin" is a hybrid and changing notion, as a study of the Hebrew and Greek words usually translated as "sin" shows:

1. It is originally (?) a priestly/ritual concept closely related to ceremonial uncleanness, which is still reflected in most uses of the word in Leviticus for instance: a "sin" offering is in order when people give birth, touch a corpse, get leprosy and so on. This has nothing to do with morality. It's a quasi-technical "problem" which make one temporarily unfit for contact with the "sacred" and can be "solved" through appropriate ritual action.

2. Then the prophets take over that priestly/ritual notion in a polemic sense, promoting a deepening and extension of civil law in the name of the deity: harming others, even in ways that are not punishable through the ordinary application of civil law (social injustice, for instance), aliens the deity just as, actually much more than ritual "sin" does. It is, in fact, the true "sin," which cannot be solved through sacrifice or ritual washing, but only by ethical, practical change (see the introduction to Isaiah for instance).

3. In some parts of later Judaism and especially Christianity this development ironically (some would say providentially) comes full circle, with the new notion that moral sin (sin in the prophetic sense) can be "solved" through sacrifice (in a further development of the priestly sense).

As for "forgiveness" I have enjoyed Derrida's paradoxical remark that, in a sense, only the unforgivable needs and is worth forgiving...

WTWizard

The "Unforgivable" Sin would be waking up to the real truth, and then attempting to spread that. This is because, if people were not afraid to investigate the real truth without committing the "Unforgivable Sin", they would soon see Christianity as more Paulian than Christian. As such, they would see the whole concept of Original Sin as a scam, at that one that has ensnared the whole planet. Then the churches would go belly up--and the leaders know that. So, if they make exposing the real truth the "unforgivable sin", their secrets and their scams are safe (and they don't go belly up).

WuzLovesDubs

"Sin" is something your conscience tells you is wrong to do. And so every one has a different list in that regard. Some dont have any lists at all. To some, eating meat on Friday was a sin, and to the JWs taking blood transfusions is a sin, and in the middle east somewhere, killing sacred cows is a sin and somewhere else walking over graves is a sin...

So my question would be...does a Creator get all involved in keeping track of what various religions teach is sin and adhere to that and punish each adherent according to their beliefs? Why would He? And where are the lines? Are there big sins, little sins, kinda sins, sins of the heart, sins of thought, sins of the eye...where would He start? If people were punished for ANY kinds of sins by the Creator...none of us, whom he created this way, would EVER reap any rewards in any paradise anywhere. It would be impossible to please him and toe that line. We are doomed to fail.

Nope...there are no guidelines about what God wants or doesnt want of us. We have created our own parameters of what is right and wrong and those limitations are different for every single person that ever existed.

You punish yourself enough for going against your conscience. God doesnt need to. Nor does He.

AllTimeJeff

3. In some parts of later Judaism and especially Christianity this development ironically (some would say providentially) comes full circle, with the new notion that moral sin (sin in the prophetic sense) can be "solved" through sacrifice (in a further development of the priestly sense).

Thanks Narkissos. It is the ritual sacrifice that has led to control. The ritual is the antidote to sin, according to the priestly class. (todays religious leaders) Sacrifice of you, your thoughts, needs and desires will lead to an approved state from the deity.

The problem from a pragmatic point of view (that at times seems offensive to Christians) is the source of the ritual. While it is represented as being divine, there is no evidence that this is true. The source from a scholarly point of view is 100% man made.

That is why sin as a concept is troubling. When you look at where it originates and how it has filtered into our cultures today, the cause and effect ratio isn't as it is represented. (i.e. taking care of your sinfulness through the priestly formula will result in you becoming a better, more spiritual person) The ritual continues to be mis-used as an excuse to continue to sin, since sinners have the ritual to fall back on. (I can sin, because I believe in the ritual and I am forgiven....) Certainly that is circular reasoning.

Such an approach doesn't result in people becoming more enlightened. Their good behavior and morality must come from within. Theists will tell you that good behavior AND a righteous standing must come from outside. Even if you do good work, if you have a bad thought that isn't manifest in action, that is still sin, and you still need a sacrifice. At least that is what the priests say.

Others would say that application of an enlightened "civil law" is more important then ceremonial "religious law".

Is the purpose of sacrifice for sins to make you a better person or to reinforce the authority of those who administer the sacrifice? Sin has as a caveat in most religions the need of a holy, righteous human intermediary. Sin has always been good business for them.

jaguarbass

Sin,

I try to avoid doing things that would cause me to be put in jail and loose my freedom of

movement anything that would cause jail or loss of movement would be sin.

If my behavior doesnt result in incarceration,

its not sinful.

It might be in bad taste and shamefull but its not sinful.

parakeet

desib77: "How do you not invest some curiosity in what they are "selling"? Doesn't "what if" ever haunt you?"

If faith in the biblical God is based on hedging your bet that maybe they're right about sin, Armageddon, death, resurrection, etc., that's faith based on fear, not love. No self-respecting deity would accept that kind of "faith."

If, by some horrible cosmic joke, the dubs turn out to be right and Armageddon arrives, and Jehovah speaks to me just before I get toasted, and says, "Why didn't you have faith in me?" I'd say, "Well, you pathetic excuse of a loving god, you gave me a brain to use and I used it. If that's an unforgivable sin, it's your fault and you should be toasted instead of me." Then, I'd no doubt be toasted. But that would be better than living forever with dubs.

Sin

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