by minimus 30 Replies latest jw friends
Be no part of the world but ignore the Watchtower's coziness with the UN.
Don't celebrate birthdays but celebrate it if it's 100 years the Watchtower has been in existence!
Stopping blood loss mechanically is ok but don't use a leech or you're in violation of the spirit of the blood ban.
I believe the "rule" is that if you were previously standing, you could remain standing but if the anthem suddenly came on while you were seated, you would have to remain seated.
That's the way it was when I was a younger. I remember always trying to show up to my seat at ballgames as the NA was playing so I could "remain standing"...that or do as Doubting Bro did and hit the bathroom during the NA.
Here's an interesting quote from the YB:
*** yb87 p. 20 1987 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses ***In India,
a test of integrity came in November 1985 when Witness children in a school in the state of Kerala became a center of controversy because of refusing to sing the national anthem, though they were willing to stand respectfully*** sj pp. 15-16 Flag Salute, Anthems and Voting ***When national anthems are played, usually all that a person has to do to show that he shares the sentiments of the song is to stand up. In such cases, Witness youths remain seated. However, if our youths are already standing when the national anthem is played, they would not have to take the special action of sitting down; it is not as though they had specifically stood up for the anthem. On the other hand, if a group are expected to stand and sing, then our young people may rise and stand out of respect. But they would show that they do not share the sentiments of the song by refraining from singing.
*** sj pp. 15-16 Flag Salute, Anthems and Voting ***When national anthems are played, usually all that a person has to do to show that he shares the sentiments of the song is to stand up. In such cases, Witness youths remain seated. However, if our youths are already standing when the national anthem is played, they would not have to take the special action of sitting down; it is not as though they had specifically stood up for the anthem. On the other hand, if a group are expected to stand and sing, then our young people may rise and stand out of respect. But they would show that they do not share the sentiments of the song by refraining from singing.
Page 103 of elder book says a person would not get DF if they associate with with a DF relative.
Try to do it and see what happens.
2009-01-30Okay a quick search of the CD finds that if everyone is singing the anthem you can stand however if standing is done out of reverence while a group, duo or soloist sings the anthem you must keep your JW butt glued to the seat as to not denote approval of the words & sentiments expressed in the song.........
*** w02 9/15 p. 24 "Salvation Belongs to Jehovah" ***
When national anthems are played, usually all a person has to do to show that he shares the sentiments of the song is to stand up. In such cases, Christians remain seated. If they are already standing when the national anthem is played, however, there is no need for them to take the special action of sitting down. It is not as though they had specifically chosen to stand for the anthem. On the other hand, if a group are expected to stand and sing, then merely standing up out of respect but not singing would not constitute sharing in the sentiments of the song.
But there is yet another loophole (for the U.S. at least)...... not mentioned in the CD!.... When the anthem is sung or just played by a performer rather then the crowd here in the USA it is tradition and expected for those in the crowd to place their hands in the 'pledge position' so if a JW only but doesn't put their hand over their heart they aren't doing an act of obesiance to the flag or nation.....and can just stand in continued hope that no one calls them out on the lack of hand placement.
Thanks Blondie for those references...
Yknot said:
But there is yet another loophole (for the U.S. at least)...... not mentioned in the CD!.... When the anthem is sung or just played by a performer rather then the crowd here in the USA it is tradition and expected for those in the crowd to place their hands in the 'pledge position' so if a JW only but doesn't put their hand over their heart they aren't doing an act of obesiance to the flag or nation.....and can just stand in continued hope that no one calls them out on the lack of hand placement.
I think the WTS purposely created these loopholes. Like you said, it's tradition for when someone sings the anthem, a lot, if not most people sing along while removing hats and placing their hands over their hearts. In this situation, according to written "rule", a JW could stand respectfully.
I think this was an attempt to keep the "free from nationalism" stance but yet not have JWs stand out (or sit down) as cult nutcases at events where the NA was presented. It's another attempt at trying to mainstream the relgion...or in the very least, give the appearance of being mainstream.
JWs can only where meeting clothes to tour bethel.....
JW are suppose to keep their meeting clothes after assemblies and DCs.....
....lol spotting the loopholes..... that was one of my favorite strategy games we used to play in kiddie TMS
So I guess in India you can stand for the Anthem but not in the USA.
I remember as a kid, I could stand for other patriotic songs---just not the National Anthem.
Spotting the loopholes has to be the favorite game of every born-in JW.
Yknot hit the loophole on the head and uses the same line of reasoning that many JWs use now in regard to the NA. Standing=polite, hand over heart = worship. Also, we used to make sure that we were standing for some other reason so that when it would come on, we'd be able to say with a straight face that we were already standing! That's if I really wanted to see the kickoff and/or mistimed my trip to the restroom.
It's all so stupid anyway.
Sharper Witnesses justify lying by employing "theocratic strategy" with everyone---not just "worldly ones". As long as someone is not needing to know the truth, then lie to them. It's ok.
