I think they should just go ahead and disfellowship everyone.
New BOE letter re: parents permitting fornication
by sir82 77 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
minimus
It's kinda like getting disfellowshipped for committing adultery in your heart now.
-
Quirky1
They musta been at my house....LOL
-
AK - Jeff
The isolationism continues unabated I see.
The only thing that prevents them from forming a new Jonestown is that no nation would permit 6 million idiots to immigrate.
Jeff
-
momzcrazy
I can see this causing real trouble for some family friends. Their son is 36, and raising 3 kids by himself. After divorcing his wife, he ended up taking her back, without getting married again.
They live in Mom and Dad's basement. Just with all the problems relating to our friend and his ex we have told them they need to kick them out. But they are too attached to the kids, who aren't any of them related by blood. They will never make them leave, and actually endure mistreatment by the exwife.
I am eager to see how this plays out for them. Dad was an elder. Son faded (quickly and with a stripper), but has never been DF'd. I think they did make Dad step down though.
-
still_in74
1) Must be a growing problem if it elicits a BOE letter with such explicit examples and directions
2) Note the last sentence quoted above:
(a) "condoning fornication" is not a DF offense in the elder manual - they seem to be establishing a new precedent here.
(b) "Causing divisions" is a catchall reason, along with "loose conduct", for DF-ing someone you don't like, but you don't have any valid grounds.
(c) "the teaching of the Christ", as contained in the gospels, mentions absolutely nothing about parents whose children are "living in fornication". But there's plenty of information in WTs, BOE letters, and other literature. Thus, the subtle connection is made - WT literature is really "the teachings of Christ"
its a growing problem because 2/3's of JW kids "leave the truth".........
condoning fornication - not so subtle away of making the parent a sinner for being a responsible parent - if the kid is under 16 the parents could be criminally charged for kicking them out!
causing divisions - yes, a catch all - every good cult worth its salt needs one of these
*****my assembly just passed the CO came straight out and said that "submitting to the congregation IS submitting Christ - the head of the cong."
Right out and said that obeying the cong/elders/WTS/FDS/GB arrangements - IS how one submits to Christ. Is there any discrepancy here?
THERE IS NO CLEARER WAY OF PUTTING IT - THE WTS/FDS/GB IS AS IMPORTANT AS CHRIST IN YOUR LIVES - ALL THE HONOR YOU GIVE TO HIM YOU ARE TO GIVE TO US OR HE WILL KILL YOU AT ARMAGEDDON. -
flipper
Minimus stated, " This is all about control. " Very true. But then again , doesn't everything the WT society does and every move they make is and always has been about control ? It's what mind control " cults " do - control, control, control. If they can control who comes into your home then they can better control what nasty little information witnesses will find out from " bad association " type relatives who might surf the internet and expose the ugly truth about the WT society to their believing relatives. I see the WT society working here to close ranks, definitely. But they are doing it because they are desperate . All cults do this and tighten their grip more so when they are losing members and control
-
undercover
"[Usual blather about 'works of flesh']...If Christian parents were to allow their unbelieving son or daughter to practice fornication in their home, they would thus be giving tacit approval to immoral conduct. This would also be true of Christians who allow a son or daughter or other relative to commit fornication while visiting their home. Such parents would surely not be exemplary Christians...
The bigger news is hidden in the main message. The main message being, "Don't let your adult un-married kids do the hanky-panky in your house", but also stated was the high-lighted part about visiting relatives. So if a nephew, aunt or grandparent comes for a visit, a JW would have to police their nocturnal habits (or anytime for that matter).
"When congregatoin elders come to know of such a situation, they sould patiently provide scriptural counsel. [Blather about the good effects if such counsel is applied]
How would the congregation elders come to know of such a situation? I can see it now -- Sister BigMouth talking about her visiting nephew and his "fiance", "They stayed in the guest bedroom for their visit. I tried to let his girlfriend have the nicer room down the hall but she insisted in staying in Nephew's room...." naively admitting that she just broke the new WT rule regarding policing fornication amongst the "nations". The sister on the receiving end of this juicy gossip runs straight to Elder Pompous who then arranges to meet with Sister BigMouth.
"Perhaps the parents are genuinely concerned that what they hve been allowing may be a cause for stumbling. For certain reasons, however, they may feel they have no recourse at the present time. For example, elderly Witness parents may need the assistance of an unbelieving son or daughter. Under such circumstances, no judicial action would be taken, but the qualification of the parent to serve in an exemplary position would be reviewed by the body of elders.
In other words... "since we don't want to be burdened with having to care for you ourselves, we'll overlook the sinning going on in your house, so they can continue to care for you and we can spend our time and energy walking about the neighborhood aggravating people. Oh by the way...you can't pioneer while they live with you." (as if someone who needed 24 hour care was pioneering to begin with.
"Suppose the parents, upon being approached by the elders, manifest a brazen attitude, not really caring if others are stumbled. Even though these parents do not encourage others to do what they themselves are doing, the elders may decide to arrange for a talk to be given that serves as a warning to the congregation [references to 'marking' from 7/15/99 WT]. On the other hand, if the baptized parents actively promote the practice of allowing individuals who are living in fornication to move into a Christian home, then the matter could be handled judicially on the grounds of condoning fornication, causing divisions, and, in effect, speaking against 'the teaching of the Christ."
highlight number one: Because a parent decides that its his house and he doesn't have an issue with whoever doing whatever, he is to be marked by the congregation. Thus, basically shunning without DFing.
highlight number two: Nice. Because someone tells the elders to mind their own business they'll be DFd for apostacy.
What I don't get is, is this such a problem that they had to get all pharisiacal on their asses and etch this commandment in stone?
All I can figure is that many of the young ones who left the faith years and decades ago are now being depended on by their elder parents to care for them...something that the elderly parents never expected to happen. You know, they were going to be in the New System by now...they would each be eating from their own fig tree and blah blah blabadee blah...
Now many of the generation that would never die are dying and instead of the Society publishing a letter encouraging everyone to support these old ones, they instead create new rules making it even harder for the old, deluded fools to stay faithful even as they are dying.
What a ruthless, disgusting corporation the WT Society is.
-
OUTLAW
"The isolationism continues unabated I see.
The only thing that prevents them from forming a new Jonestown is that no nation would permit 6 million idiots to immigrate...Jeff".....
...OUTLAW -
undercover
Why stop at fornication? What about all the other DFing actions too?
I mean if unbelieving Uncle Bob lights one up every night outside on the driveway while he is staying with you because Aunt Betty is in the nearby hospital for the next 3 weeks, should a JW be held responsible?
Excellent point...
Smoking is a DFing offense amongst JWs just as is fornication.
Now that a precedent has been set that JWs can't allow non-JWs to participate in one DFing offense, what's to stop self-righteous elders from "going beyond the things written" and enforcing this same principle on any "offense" deemed DFing worthy? What if a family member lived with you and a was a gun-carrying police officer? What if the non-JW living with you works for a tobacco company? What if they are politically active and vote? What if they get an abortion?
This is a big time cult move. It's not about morals or "christian" living, I personally wouldn't let my daughter stay at my home with a boyfriend in the same room, but that's each parents and each homeowners decision.
This is about control. Institute yet another rule that has to be followed by the group members. Break their individuality and free spirit just that much more.
...OUTLAW