Jesus said a "helper" would come, Holy Spririt...so why the FDS???

by oompa 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  passwordprotected

  It's a good question, but here's how JWs answer it;

  Who did Jesus promise the Holy Spirit to? His brothers on earth, the anointed. So only the anointed can expect to have the Holy Spirit on them, teaching them. And who are Christ's brothers on earth today? The remnant of the anointed making up the 'faithful and discreet slave', chosen in 1919 to take care of Christ's interests on earth. These ones are needed to teach us because only they can have the Holy Spirit.

  Yes, the reasoning is circular, but that won't stop 'em.
• 

  Chalam

  Hi,

  Neither is that what Joel said.

  Acts 2:17 " 'In the last days, God says,
  I will pour out my Spirit on all people.

  Or Peter

  Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  KAYTEE

  yadda,

  If the WTS got 607bce wrong then Dan’s prophecy ( ending in 1914) is also wrong,

  "Jesus did say that when he arrived he would find a faithful and discreet slave faithfully feeding "

  If Jesus did not arrive in 1914, then there can’t be a faithful and discreet slave class yet ?, he has not yet arrived, yet another puzzle we are left with!

  KT
• 

  oompa

  yadda: So what is your take on Matthew 24:45-47 Oompa? Of course, the WTS's spin on the whole 1919 appointment thing is nonsense, nevertheless, Jesus did say that when he arrived he would find a faithful and discreet slave faithfully feeding and when he would appoint a faithful slave over all his belongings. What do you think this means? Where is this slave?

  Fair enought question yadda...and there have already been a few good answers. I feel the key to this scripture is contained throughout this chapter or chapters. As to "where is this slave"....well this slave is the same as the 5 discreet virgins who were alert and cautious enough to not let their lamp oil run out....they are the exact same as the man who knew his home was going to be broken into and "kept on the watch".....the entire chapter is full of parables that make the exact same point over and over. They are all good parables/illustrations and i think there are six of them, but you dont hear the FDS refer to themselves as the Discreet Virgin Class....even though they do say these virgins represent them too....btw.........oompa

  just read this account as if you are reading it for the very first time...with no pre-conceived notions and you will see how all the parables tie in to make a point...NOT a specific prophecy....basically WT took a blurb and made something huge out of it....and it was not necessary as the anointed supposedly had the holy spirit since day one
  
• 

  passwordprotected

  Yadda said;

  So what is your take on Matthew 24:45-47 Oompa? Of course, the WTS's spin on the whole 1919 appointment thing is nonsense, nevertheless, Jesus did say that when he arrived he would find a faithful and discreet slave faithfully feeding and when he would appoint a faithful slave over all his belongings. What do you think this means? Where is this slave?

  It's easy to read these verses with WTS goggles on. Remember, it's a parable which, by definition, is a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson. A parable is often used to make comparison between one thing and another. Matthew 24:45-47 isn't a prophecy, it's a parable illustrating that when Christ returns (and we can assumed He didn't return in 1914) he'll be looking for people who have slaved for him in a faithful and discreet way. All Christians claim to be slaves for Christ. All Christians try to be faithful in slaving for Christ. And notice what Jesus himself said about people who lived by the principles in the sermon on the mount;

  Matt 7:24 “Therefore everyone that hears these sayings of mine and does them will be likened to a discreet man, who built his house upon the rock-mass.."

  Considering that one of the basic characteristics of the New Covenent is;

  Jeremiah 31:33 “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.”

  34 “And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, ‘K NOW Jehovah!’ for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,” is the utterance of Jehovah.

  Seems pretty obvious that those in the New Covenant would not need to be taught by other humans about God, all of them would know God, God's laws would be written in their hearts. Factor in oompah's original thought that Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would be the One teaching, then it's a real stretch to take Matthew 24:45-47 and extrapolate that into a publishing corporation who must be sought out for spiritual food and instruction.

  Also, consider Paul's words;

  Rom 5: 5 and the hope does not lead to disappointment; because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy spirit, which was given us.

  God pours the Holy Spirit into the hearts of Christians and comes to live within them, teaching and instructing them.

  And this doesn't even begin to touch on the fact that Jesus did not mention in Matthew 24:45-47 that it was spiritual food that the slave would be dispensing or that the dispensing would be taking place on earth.
• 

  LouBelle

  I remember broaching the subject of the holy spirit when I started thinking form myself - I was told that I was starting to think Independently from the organisation and that it wasn't going to be tolerated, as the FDS are the ones that the holy spirit directs - not piddly 'ol me. I disagreed on that an many other points.