Why is America such an unequal society?

by hamilcarr 78 Replies latest social current

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr

    With the latest surge of anti-European comments and threads from US anti-progressives on this board, a little bit American self-criticism may be appropriate.

    Since the eighties, income inequality has been on the rise in American society. Most economists, however, agree that redistributing wealth is a legitimate role for any modern enlightened government. And even Alan Greenspan labelled US income inequality a "disturbing tend" which could lead to societal instability. Ominous words.

    Some have argued globalization has created this "inevitable" inequality, implying that everyone who tries to enforce equality must be anti-globalization. The fact remains though that America is the only developed country where inequality has increased over the last two decades.

    So what happened to this land of equal opportunity?

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Wow, talk about a loaded thread title and several red herrings all rolled into one.

    Why is America such an unequal society?

    Compared with......?

    anti-progressives

    Who is antiprogressive? Me, I am antiestatiste, as any sane progressive should be. Since the state has proved the greatest aggressor and opressor of humanity througout history, I am very progressive.

    Since the eighties, income inequality has been on the rise in American society.

    Inflationary spending, illegal immigration, unfair trade.

    Most economists, however, agree that redistributing wealth is a legitimate role for any modern enlightened government.

    Not true. What you are underline is a political ideology (proper role and function of the state), not an economic one (at its core, a study of praxeology). What may make the most economic sense may not be deemed to be a good system for other reasons.

    So what happened to this land of equal opportunity?

    It is still a land of equal opportunity. I started with scratch from a family of immigrants. I live very comfortably in the top quintile.

    Inflation and credit expansion, the preferred methods of present day government openhandedness, do not add anything to the amount of resources available. They make some people more prosperous, but only to the extent that they make others poorer.

    Credit expansion and inflationary increase of the quantity of money frustrate the common mans attempts to save and to accumulate reserves for less propitious days.

    Ludwig Von Mises

    BTS

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Some said inequality was a good thing because it gives the plebs something to aspire to. Not everyone can have yachts and mansions, but if some of us can then the rest will be motivated to work hard with the idea that someday they might 'make it' themsevles.

    Which is complete rubbish of course. People realise that the system is rigged against the majority now. Upward mobility is the rare exception. And besides the whole system depends upon the majority remianing downtrodden. As people start to struggle to secure the necessities of life they simply will not stand for it any more. The UK must be nearly as bad as the US.

    So yes I think there will be societal instability, not just in the US but across the world: Trouble big time.

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    Compared with......?

    Other developed countries as said in the OP.

    Public Policy, Economic Inequality, and Poverty: The United States in Comparative Perspective*

    Conclusion. We speculate on the role policy plays in the final determination of income inequality. We argue that these differences cannot be explained by demography (single parents, immigrants, elders) but are more likely to be attributed to American institutions and lack of spending effort on behalf of low-income working families.

    Timothy M. Smeeding 1 ABSTRACT

    Objective. This article compares recent levels and trends in economic inequality in industrialized nations, largely those belonging to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. We also examine the effects of government policies and social spending efforts on inequality.

    Method. We use data from the Luxembourg Income Study and the U.S. Congressional Budget Office to measure disposable money income on an annual basis for 30 nations around the end of the 20th century. We also convert the incomes of a set of rich nations into real 2000 U.S. dollars, using a standard measure of purchasing power parity to examine absolute differences in income inequality.

    Results. The United States has the highest overall level of inequality of any rich OECD nation at the beginning of the 21st century. Moreover, increases in the dispersion of total household income in the United States have been as large as, or larger than, those experienced elsewhere between 1979 and 2002. Government policies and social spending have lesser effects in the United States than in any other rich nation, and both low spending and low wages have a great impact on the final income distribution, especially among the nonelderly.

    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118690256/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

    The facts are irrefutable, the interpretations may differ.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    If progessivism is securing the maximum freedom for human beings then Hamilcarr you are a statist antiprogressive. If I were to advocate for state control of the peoples moral, spiritial, and religious expression, you would call me a statist antiprogressive, and rightly so. However, you are not consistent. YOU go on with a straight face to advocate state control and interference in the economic lives of the people. As there is separation of Church and State, so there should be separation of Economy and State.

    BTS

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    Who is antiprogressive? Me, I am antiestatiste, as any sane progressive should be. Since the state has proved the greatest aggressor and opressor of humanity througout history, I am very progressive.

    Anyone with a static view on society (found more often in the top quintile than in the bottom quintile). The government may be an aid in changing society (cf. scientific article in previous post, low spending creating inequality).

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr

    maximum freedom for human beings

    I'm not convinced. Define freedom!

    The truth shall set you free?

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    I should have used the word "Liberty"

    I think the Wikipedia heading for the word describes it nicely:

    Liberty, the freedom to act or believe without being stopped by unnecessary force, is generally considered in modern time to be a concept of political philosophyand identifies the condition in which an individual has the right to act according to his or her own will.

    There is a link above to the entry for "Classical Liberalism"

    Classical liberalism (also known as traditional liberalism [ 1 ] , laissez-faire liberalism [ 2 ] , and market liberalism [ 3 ] or, outside the United States and Britain, sometimes simply liberalism [citation needed] ) is a doctrine stressing individual freedom, free markets, and limited government. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, individual freedom from restraint, equality under the law, constitutional limitation of government, free markets, and a gold standard to place fiscal constraints on government [ 4 ] as exemplified in the writings of John Locke, Adam Smith, David Hume, David Ricardo, Voltaire, Montesquieu and others. As such, it is the fusion of economic liberalismwith political liberalism of the late 18th and 19th centuries. [ 2 ] The "normative core" of classical liberalism is the idea that laissez-faire economics will bring about a spontaneous order or invisible hand that benefits the society, [ 5 ] though it does not necessarily oppose the state's provision of some basicpublic goods with what constitutes public goods being seen as very limited. [ 6 ] The qualification classical was applied retroactively to distinguish it from more recent, 20th-century conceptions of liberalism and its related movements, such as social liberalism [ 7 ] Classical liberals are suspicious of all but the most minimal government [ 8 ] and object to the welfare state [ 9 ] .

    Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Milton Friedman, are credited with influencing a revival of classical liberalism in the twentieth century after it fell out of favor beginning in the late nineteenth century and much of the twentieth century. [ 10 ] [ 11 ] In relation to economic issues, this revival is sometimes referred to, mainly by its opponents, as "neoliberalism". The German "ordoliberalism" has a whole different meaning, since the likes of Alexander Rüstow and Wilhelm Röpke have advocated a more interventionist state, as opposed to laissez-faire liberals [ 12 ] [ 13 ] . Classical liberalism has many aspects in common with modern libertarianism, with the terms being used almost interchangeably by those who support limited government. [ 14 ] [ 15 ]

    BTS

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    The government may be an aid in changing society

    Social engineering is not a legitmate function of the state. Society should change according to the interaction of free individuals.

    Beware the concentration of power in the state!

    You are indoctrinated. You were born and raised in a cult, the cult of the state. You were educated in state schools, watch state run or state censored television, and buy products produced by corporations that are in bed with the state. Like an utterly broken Winston at the end of Orwell's 1984, you love Big Brother.

    BTS

  • hamilcarr
    hamilcarr
    Inflationary spending, illegal immigration, unfair trade.

    Can you provide proof that America has suffered more from these so-called vices than other developed countries where inequality remained the same?

    As a modern liberal (social-democratic in Europe), I consider the lack of economic opportunity as a threat to liberty.

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