Why are elders of the same mould

by KAYTEE 21 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Confession
    Confession

    I've commented in the distant past on threads like this one. As yesidid recognizes, there are elders of many different sorts. The only thing that they have in common? At least some of the existing elders thought they might be good additions to their "body." In the culture of this board, we can certainly focus on the negative--and, let's face it, with so many negative experiences, it's easy to do that! But if you want to be objective; that is to say, if you really want an answer to your questions, it wouldn't hurt to try and (at least for the moment) separate yourself from the negative.

    I always get a kick out of those who were never elders who love to lump them into a lockstep, robotic, harsh-minded "mold." They will lambaste them soundly--while being fully happy to minimize anything they themselves did when a publisher. Let me make this perfectly clear: elders were just as brainwashed as you were!

    "Perhaps you could explain why they are still in a position of elder when they MUST be aware of all that happened in the past."

    Quite easily. They are no more aware of "all that happened in the past" than you were--in most cases. I served as an MS and an elder for three years each. I was only 9 years old in 1975. I'd only heard whisperings about it in my childhood. I thought it was all overblown faultfinding. I was wrong, just as many non-elders were. I didn't think the WTS was a "false prophet," nor that they misled people into thinking "the end" was coming in the way I knew some claimed. I accepted the WTS' own position on this. I was wrong, just as many non-elders were. I did not fully absorb what a big deal the "generation" change was. Didn't even think to dwell upon it, exactly as many non-elders didn't. I accepted the WTS perspective that blood transfusions were a slap in the face of Jehovah, precisely as many non-elders did.

    The primary difference between me and most non-elders? I was male, and I was trying (as two previous generations of my family taught me) to make a positive contribution to the congregation. Do you think that elders all have control issues? I can't speak for your experience, nor for your level of objectivity. But if you really think about it, most here will be able to remember several elders who were just trying to do what they'd been led to believe was "the right thing." Without question, I can assure you that many of them had NO INTEREST in being an elder, nor in accepting any position of authority or oversight. Very often men are simply guilted into it. I turned them down the first two times I was asked. Then came the frequent pleas from the platform to "reach out" for this "fine thing." There were disappointed looks. I believed this was The Truth, so I believed I was doing something selfless in agreeing to give up a rather shocking percentage of my life and time in order to be an elder. But I could have continued to refuse, right? Yes, I could have. Just like you could have refused to go out in service, conduct bible studies and give talks in the Theocratic Ministry School.

    And I at least enjoyed giving talks. I remember so many elders who hated giving them. Those who had no self-esteem in this area, who would much rather have left it up to others, who looked for every opportunity not to have to be involved in a Judicial Committee.

    Pompous elders who liked the "in control" aspect? Absolutely. You'll find men (and women) like this in every area of life. But I submit that a rather large segment either never had any interest in such a thing--or only seemed to accept such "control" when others were so willing to extend such to them. The fact that you may see certain similar qualities in elders only means those qualities are generally what was expected of these men. And they may have been exhibiting those qualities--even though they didn't really enjoy doing so. Can you often recognize certain qualities in Jehovah's Witnesses in general? Some will say a majority are typically "unloving," "superficial," "unquestioning," "self-righteous." But these qualities are only present because they are extensions of life inside the Watchtower bubble. Same with qualities you may have noticed among elders. Thank goodness many JWs are so often not like that. Thank goodness so many JW elders don't manifest the controlling qualites many do. It's only a potential good harbinger of the future. These ones are possibly in the process of awakening to reality.

    There were no elder schools, during the time I served, that informed us of "the dirt" on the Society. I remember no official prepping on what to say when faced with the so-called apostate issues I have now come to understand. I was indoctrinated with exactly the same material you were as a non-elder. The elder book only told us how to deal with judicial issues in the congregation--and was not an "inside expos é." If I had been a woman, I wouldn't have been an elder. Maybe if I hadn't been in the 3rd generation of a 4-generation JW family, full of elders, pioneers and two professed anointed persons, I wouldn't have been an elder. If I had been born (or raised to be) a person who liked to challenge authority, maybe I wouldn't have been an elder. I don't know. But the fact that you were also fooled, also accepted the teaching on blood transfusions, also waited a period of time before finally giving yourself permission to investigate this organization objectively, doesn't make you any better than we were--just because you were never an elder.

    Did you conduct bible studies? Did you engage in the house-to-house work? Did you give talks from the platform? Did you risk your life or the life of your child by refusing a blood transfusion? You were involved just like we were. You were "teachers," you were "preachers," just like we were. You were doing what you thought was right, just like we were. And you were fooled and manipulated, just like we were.

    Wow... That felt like a rant. Not typical of me, is it? Thanks for any who've indulged me here.

  • KAYTEE
    KAYTEE

    confession,

    "And you were fooled and manipulated, just like we were."

    You are a 100% right there, I must say though I was not manipulated by ANY elder if by doing so it would make me compromise Jehovah’s law, or if common sense was not being used.

    Read into my character and you may just arrive at the wrong conclusion, this is the trouble with chat forums, I would always prefer face to face contact.

    The written word can sound cold and calculated when facial expressions are not seen.

    I’m sorry but I have lived for many years on this earth, the best of them in the Org. (years that is) but I just did not get on with people that can dilute the "truth" and bring Jehovah down to the level that they do sometimes.

    If I had found at the outset what I found out these recent years I would NEVER had joined this Org.

    KT

  • yesidid
    yesidid

    Thank you Confession.

    You eloquently expanded on my brief resume of what I saw and experienced in sixty years as a third generation Witness.

    yesidid

  • quietlyleaving
    quietlyleaving

    the way I see it, elders are all very different but they have to submerge and hide variety for the sake of unity and conformity.

  • quietlyleaving
    quietlyleaving

    And another thing they have to keep the congregation properly clean don't they

  • MissingLink
    MissingLink

    >> Please supply scripture and verse. --KT

    Rutherford 3:15

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Lol , Missing Link..

    Elders? I was an Elder from the early 70's to the late 90's ..I saw some changes.

    My theory is that the older elders who taught me had in the main come in in adult life. They had lived a bit, fought in The War , then found the WT. They understood people much better. There were some, just a few that I really felt proud to be alongside because they were 'good men' who(despite the falsehood of the teaching) really did care for the people and had real management skill, in contrast to those I saw in employment in the day..Of course that did not stop me leaving once I realised that the truth was not.....)

    Today, those men have passed on or have moved out of the limelight and a new younger generation of elders have taken over. Largely these men have been raised inside the Borg. They have never had a life outside, never done the things they talk about, they have to believe what they see in the books. They are company men, moulded by a business corporation masquerading as a religion. The do what they are told , one told my wife "I just go with the flow" when she raised concerns ..

    So, I am saying that the WTS has produced a set of men to do its bidding...and they do. ..I do not think that my old P O (ex millitary, ex miner, ex prison before he changed) would last long today. He would upset too many of them.

  • watson
    watson

    Good thread.

  • Barbie Doll
    Barbie Doll

    Brain Wash, Brain Wash, Brain Wash ----You have to agree with the elders,---You have to agree with the elders,--- you have to agree with the elders. ( is it working ) LOl LOL

  • KAYTEE
    KAYTEE

    missinglink,

    Rutherford 3:15

    I’m sorry but I don’t have that version of the bible, I use the Wts edition.

    The only Rutherford I know is the one who gave legal advise to Charles Russell, who through various "means" given to him by his secular work experience got him the Presidency.

    If that is the same man that you put your future salvation in then perhaps you should read what the bible says on the matter, especially as you seam to have quoted it to me.

    Read ; Psalm 146 v 3-4

    DO NOT PUT YOUR TRUST IN NOBLES. NOR IN THE SON OF EARTHLING MAN TO WHOME NO SALVATION BELONGS.

    He was a man wasn’t he !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    KT

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