Big Love does the Mormon Temple ceremony this Sunday

by FormerMormon 66 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  pillowheadpete

  Thanks, undercover, sammieswife, rebel and purps - you've given me lots to think about.

  I think I've believed only in myself for too long. Maybe if I was 50 years old, I could more readily justify being baptized into a church because I agree that I'd certainly be more wise by then. But until then, it would be nice to have some guidance. And maybe baptism doesn't offer that. But I would think it would be like a symbol to me and others that I'm serious about taking steps closer to god. -- I'm looking for guidance that is spiritual - you know? Not eclectic though. I'm looking for worship where I can have a real fellowship with people who struggle like me. I'm looking for a place where I can question and not be judged. I'm looking for a way to become closer to god. It may be kinda like a fraternity. I'm willing to change certain habbits in exchange for this. But I do not want to join a cult. It's just that religion that doesn't stand for anything but an easy and good time does not take me there. And the religions that take stances all seem to be cults. I'd like to be as devoted to god as I am my wife because of the same kind of love I have for my wife. Does that make sense? That is, if god is indeed my creator...

  I have some concerns about the LDS faith. In my study, I have found that most exmormons have been excommunicated because they have broken oaths or vows or whatever and they were let go. Or they've just kinda let it go cause they don't believe it anymore. I've seen a few examples out there of people who have very sad stories like abuse (in various forms) from trusted leaders. (Good thing I'm not the judge of all, because I'd have a hard time showing any mercy to leaders who have abused.) But they're kinda few and far between. Mostly exmormons who are vocal were caught doing certain things (like the Tanners) that they promised they wouldn't do to be part of their faith.

  The saddest fact from my research over the past 15 years is that JWs who have been offended, seriously hurt, or emotionally abused could fill a major city within the U.S. I do not know if one is more right than the other, or if these tendencies are a result of some other dynamic.

  To me, family is important. There is like 75 million families worldwide, if I'm doing my math right. And this is more than any one country's population in the entire world. So this to me is kind of my baseline. It's natural as a father to want to provide for and protect my kids.

  The LDS faith makes family their baseline, so maybe that's what is ringing true right now. The whole Heavenly Father concept is a tough one for me as a proud male who makes a lot of mistakes everyday. But what if there was a god out there that created families for a reason? And what would that reason be? Would he want to provide things for me like I do for my kids? Would the hole point just be that he wants me to find Nirvana, or joy, or happiness or peace or whatever? -- I don't want to get too deep, I have a tendancy to do that.

  BTW: This site is interesting about mormons: http://www.sunstonemagazine.com/ Some of these articles are really interesting. I'm not sure who is behind it. It doesn't look like the mormon church is behind it. And the people who write stuff really have questions and are struggling. But they do not seem angry at the mormons.

  I swear I'll shut up now.
• 

  rebel8

  In all honesty, I'm interested in the Mormon faith.

  I'm interested in FDLS too, but I'm not searching for anything. Just find it fascinating, from a sociological POV.

  It's always so interesting to see the 'special' things that go on in other organizations

  Definitely. I mean the Mormons seem to be so upset about Big Love showing their inner chambers, but when all is said and done, isn't it just four walls? I'd love to see the Scientology stuff too-there's an org that needs to be fully exposed to the public IMO.

  I wish Big Love would lighten up on the tension. It's like watching a train wreck--one major thing after another. Can't catch my breath.

  Pillowhead-I've heard nice things about Unitarians?

  Your math problem is interesting. JWs make up maybe 1% of the US population-in the country the religion originated in-but I suppose if you count families affected over the years that is a lot. What meaningless pain this cult has caused.

  The jw religion does indeed break up many a family. If God wants families and friends to be estranged because someone takes a blood transfusion, sings "Happy Birthday", gives a toast, wears a cross, decorates a tree, masturbates, or owns a windchime.....while at the same time protecting liars, wife beaters, child molesters, thieves, and murderers.....well then I don't want to worship God.

  I'm sorry for thinking you are a jw. You happened to use some approaches and lingo that jws have used with me, right down to the "why are you monitoring this site" question.
• 

  sammielee24

  I'm looking for worship where I can have a real fellowship with people who struggle like me. I'm looking for a place where I can question and not be judged. I'm looking for a way to become closer to god. It may be kinda like a fraternity. I'm willing to change certain habbits in exchange for this. But I do not want to join a cult. It's just that religion that doesn't stand for anything but an easy and good time does not take me there. And the religions that take stances all

  My family were Catholics, Presbyterians, Unitarian and Anglican. Unitarian is very pleasant and they still allow you to question and learn and you can still have a fellowship. None of them practice shunning which is a huge issue with me. I also don't find Mormonism to be as divisive to the family. Your relationship with God is as strong as you make it but I understand the need for fellowship and guidance. Why not attend some other mainstream churches first, learn about them and proceed along on your own pace. Go and speak to a pastor or minister, make an appointment and talk to him one on one about your concerns and your growth - decide for yourself.

  Baptism to me, should not be something done until you are already very mature and have experienced much of life. By that time, you will have lived and understood that as a human you will err and you will strive to do better - trying to correct any human missteps while baptized within a cult like the WTS, brings extreme suffering and pain under punishment of shunning. I don't believe in doomsday cults and that is what a JW lives for - his death. Not for me.

  I was allowed to study yoga, I followed Buddhist philosophy for a long time - I was able to go to a Baptist church, a Gospel hall and a Salvation Army meeting - all of those things I would have been disfellowshipped for and shunned by family, had I been a baptized JW. Freedom is the one thing that you have that allows you to learn - you give that up in strict, fundamental cults. sammieswife.
• 

  pillowheadpete

  Wow - I have really been enlightened about what Jehovah's Witnesses believe as a result of finding you all here. Thanks all.

  Yeah, rebel8, sorry for the 'monitoring' thing. I truely thought you were a monitor because you knew it was my first time posting. Don't these type of sites have monitors that have tools to see who are first timers? I was approved by someone, so I was wondering if it may have been you.

  Am I wrong or does it seem like any society throughout history that will not allow their people to go to other meetings, read other books, or have some of the basic joys in life like celebrating holidays and events seems to always have things to hide. This is so bad, but by your description it reminded me of a very powerful political group that held power in Germany and other parts of Europe in the 1940s. Didn't they discourage the same kinds of things?

  Sammie and Rebel -

  Thanks for your suggestions about Unitarianism.

  I know some wonderfull Unitarians. I attended one of their services long ago, though I don't remember much about it. Perhaps I'll go again.

  Interesting things about them, to me, are that they believe that Jesus was sent by a Heavenly Father and that they are one in spirit. (Which is interesting since most Christians believe in the Trinity.) They believe that in Christ we see "the measure and stature of the perfect man" - I like that quote from their creed. They do not believe in predestination. They believe in a kind and wise paternal god. They believe that the highest office we can have in this life is one of parents. I like all of that. These things ring true. (It makes sense to me that there is a god. And I believe, or I guess I have faith, that Jesus Christ was sent by him. I pray to god and thank him for things.) -- They seem to be a very forgiving and understanding bunch. As I talk to them, each believes a bit differently and each is not certain how to answer some of my questions. Which is okay.

  What I've found most interesting lately is how different Christian religions handle the break from where Christ was crucified. We can read all about this in the last books of the Bible after Christ died, but what happened after that? The Catholics changed so much of what Christ taught. Most of what they believe can not be found in the Bible, but they claim they have continuous authority back from Peter.

  I also think it is interesting how they handle Christ as the one who laid out god's church and what that means today. I believe that a group of scholars, as smart as they are, could never come up with the mind of god and know what to eliminate from the Bible. I do not believe that the bible is the definitive word of god.
• 

  Black Sheep

  It's just that religion that doesn't stand for anything but an easy and good time does not take me there. And the religions that take stances all seem to be cults.

  It is catch 22 alright.

  Very often the stance you are required to take goes against a truth.

  Both JW and Mormon religions require you to believe as truth versions of history that are contradicted by known facts and are only supported on their own say so.

  Both religions vilify anyone who points it out.

  Anyone who offers you salvation in return for control over your life should not be trusted until you have done a thorough investigation. This should include talking to ex members, as they will alert you to doctrines and rules that you will not be told about until you are sufficiently controlled.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  FormerMormon

  I'm calling BS on Pillowhead.

  The breadth of his knowledge is FAR to great for a simple investigator. The average investigator hasn't heard of the Tanners or Sunstone Magazine, nor has the average investigator been indoctrinated long enough to believe that the only people to leave Mormonism MUST BE BAD OR SINNING. It couldn't be because of reprehensible church history that is glossed over/hidden. It couldn't be because of years of mental and ecclesiastical abuse.

  The LDS church does have a paid apologists who maintain apologist websites. They also sit on Wikipedia entries religiously. In their spare time, they annoy postmo/exmo and other sites.

  I will now do a postmormon vicarious ordinance for you all.

  " Ex JW's, having been commissioned by the flying spaghetti monster, I apologize for Pillowhead, who is an idiot. In the name of Joseph's Myth. Amen"

  Seriously, PH, READ the exjw stories. Then read exmo stories. The cultic tools are nearly identical. Go back to your MADB board.
• 

  restrangled

  So when those Mormon boys come to my door in their black pants and white shirts with nametags.....What should I be asking them? Usually I slam the door. They show up every couple of months, like the JW's.

  r.
• 

  Big Tex

  " Ex JW's, having been commissioned by the flying spaghetti monster, I apologize for Pillowhead, who is an idiot. In the name of Joseph's Myth. Amen"

  This made me laugh. You reminded me of Steve Martin in "The Man with Two Brains" when he conducted a Citizen's Divorce on Kathleen Turner. "Ipso Facto E Plurbis Enum!"

  FM, if you don't mind me asking, how accurate is "Big Love" vis-a-vis the Mormon Church? I realize polygamy has been officially banned since the 1890's, but generally speaking does the show portray the culture of the church relatively accurate? I realize there is a great difference between the mainstream church and splinter groups such as Warren Jeffs (which I'm assuming is what the character of Roman is based upon). I guess I'd like to hear your thoughts on the show, if you'd like to share.

  My wife and I have been hooked on the show from the start. We don't watch much television but this show does have so many similarities to the Witnesses that we find it fascinating. What is interesting, at least to me, is how similar the behavioral dynamics are between the two high-control sects. I'm tempted to say that the Mormon church is somewhat more liberal than the Witnesses, but I have a feeling in saying that I am probably showing quite a bit of ignorance.

  Chris
• 

  Black Sheep

  So when those Mormon boys come to my door in their black pants and white shirts with nametags.....What should I be asking them? Usually I slam the door. They show up every couple of months, like the JW's.

  Tell them your experiences as a member of a high control cult.

  They will listen to you as you are not an apostate of their religion.

  Talk about the methods the WT used to control you.

  If you are shunned, tell them about it.

  Control the conversation. They will ask a question to change the subject just like a JW. Don't fall for it.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  purplesofa

  When I quit going to JW meetings, two Morman boys started to come by the house. I really liked them. They begged to rake my leaves, they have to get so many hours in of volunteer work in the community, so I finally let them. They would not take any money. I finally gave them a card, thanking them, that they accepted that did have some money in it. We talked about the JW's and Mormans, They actually told me they thought well of the witnesses for not celebrating birthdays and Christmas. They are not thought apostate for reading apostate literature, they both had read other literature and they said it strengthened their faith.

  They told me people would not be DF for smoking, they would not shun them, but would encourage them to quit.

  They were in the ministry for two years and then would go back to their homes and begin their lives. Work and marry and start a family. They would not go in door to door work after their two years.

  They introduced themselves as Elder ______. I got the feeling that some days were difficult for them being away from home and doing all they had to do. They knew it was their service to God and was temporary.

  At that time, I told them I was burnt pretty bad from JW religion and was not interested in religion after that experiance.

  They were great kids,

  purps