Pillowheadpete sounds a lot like Susanhere
Big Love does the Mormon Temple ceremony this Sunday
by FormerMormon 66 Replies latest jw friends
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FormerMormon
Restrangled: Some good things to say to Mormon missionaries when they come: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/170693/2/Mormon-Might-try-to-converte-me-Help
Big Tex- Big love is very accurate. As you said it does deal with a splinter group. The splinter group is actually closer to the "gospel" as practiced and taught by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young than the main line LDS.
Three things I have noticed about the program. 1. Lack of wearing garments at the Henricksons. Kinda heard to add sexual zip to a show while wearing garments, the ultimate in sackloth and ashes. Garments predate the mormon split over polygamy. In fact, if they follow Brighams instructions, their garments should go all the way to their wrists and ankles. 2. Bill thinks Roman is a fallen prophet- doesn't recognize his "authority". How does one disavow his sect leader without invalidating the teachings and authority? 3. How does he believe in eternal families if Roman is a false prophet - by what authority are they eternally sealed??? Authority lines are very lineal. People are very proud to show you their priesthood geneology, man by man all the way to horny Joe and his ever changing accounts of angels. Baptisms for the dead, eternal marriages are done in temples. Doing stuff like this outside of the temple is a bit of a stretch, however, Joseph's Myth was known to have done these ordinances while earlier temples were under construction.
PurpleSofa, One of the questions that is asked during temple recommend interviews (needed to get in the temple) is do you associate with people who are against the church? They ask you if you are reading their material. Reading anti, or former or anything challenging the church is strictly forbidden and will cost you temple priviledges. Smoking will also cost you temple priviledges. You can be disfellowshipped or excommunicated for apostasy if you even read anti mormon material. It happens all the time, especially with the advent of the internet (thank you Al Gore). Those missionaries could be excommunicated for their readings.
Pillowhead trumped up the Mormon's favorite selling point: the Family.
As long as the whole famdamly is active and in pray, pay and obey mode, living up to every micromanaging expectation, then everything is kosher. If there is a part member family or one active/ one inactive the church will wedge between couples to leverage the inactive into compliance. They don't care if this results in divorce. My wife and I are VERY happy and closer than ever before. WhenI was questioning, she was asked TWICE (once by a Bishop and once by a Stake President) if she could possibly stay with me and my questions. Mainline Mormons don't reassign wives, as was done in Brighams day. They do actively teach that wives would be taken from unworthy husbands (like me) and reassigned in the hereafter. My wife was actually concerned about being reassigned, before she saw the light. Mormons are actively taught that God and the church is more important than spouse or children or family. My family isn't speaking to me (us) anymore. Same with my wife's side. We have heard through nephews that we are on a do not call list. When we do have to get together, my wife and I NEVER say anything religious until someone else engages us in it. They always do. They can't stand to have anyone who doubts the message among them. And they are worried for our souls.
Even for good appearing active members, there are serious issues simmering underneath. The church uses large doses of guilt and fear to manipulate people. Some are repressed or suicidal. Most are pretending something. Former Lutheran and Catholics don't have support groups. Former JW's, Scientologists, Muslims and Mormons DO have recovery groups. This is a fair indicator of the mental damage and recovery needed by these groups. They are cults.
An interesting sidenote: similarities between Joseph's Myth and Muhammed.
Both claimed angelic visions
Both were unschooled and ignorant
Both revealed the perfect word of god in a new book
Both claimed exclusive power from god
Both taught against using alcohol
Both believed in polygamy
Both had sex with very young girls and other men's wives.
Both have followers who would DIE for their leaders.
Good night
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noni1974
I was talking to some Mormon missionaries a few years ago and they told me they believed Jehovah and Jesus were in fact the same person. They knew I was EX JW so they may have just said that because they thought the name Jehovah was important to me. I went to church with them once and took the Communion. I thought it was weird that they used bread from a store and water instead of wine. They stopped coming around when I told them I had no interest in getting baptised in another religion. I also was asking very pointed questions and they kept telling me I would learn that stuff later.
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Black Sheep
The boys I talked to last time were offering to mow my scruffy lawn. I had just had a heat attack, but I wasn't going to owe a cult member anything.
When I was a kid we went "where the need was great". No JWs. We were it.
Two Mormon boys arrived a few months after we did, moved in next door, set up a tennis court in their front yard and invited the locals around for a game.
I remember a WT publication saying how the growth we had was evidence of Jehovah's blessings.
Well, Jehovah must have been looking after the Mormon boys much better than us because 40 years later the JWs are lumped in with "other religions" at 3% of population, while the Mormons are listed at 10%.
There must be a lesson in there somewhere.
Cheers
Chris
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sacolton
I think the whole Joseph Smith being a prophet just kills the idea of being Mormon. (among other things)
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rebel8
pillowhead, your number of posts is visible to everyone at the left of your computer screen.
sorry if you are genuine but many of us have our BS meters set on high (because we're used to apologists pretending to be something else).
then again, if the LDS church is sending members here to recruit, they're dumber than I thought--can't think of a less likely place to reap new souls.
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sir82
Mormons are actively taught that God and the church is more important than spouse or children or family.
Boy, does THAT sound familiar...
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sacolton
Where in the bible is polygamy condemned? How was it ever part of Christianity?
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pillowheadpete
Wow, I wasn't expecting that! To be clear I'm not sent here by the LDS (mormon) church. I must be getting closer though if I've been mistaken for a Mormon. Sorry but that is a FIRST! Ha-ha! But I'll defend their message, any of my mormon friends, and I'd defend all of you if I knew your stories based upon what I believe is right. I'd defend the Unitarians. I'll defend Budhists and all Christians to some extent. I will defend anyone who was abused no matter their religion.
Beksbks -
Who is Susanhere?
Purps -
I first met missionaries in Arkansas too, interestingly enough. I lived in a few places there (Jonesboro and Conway) in the 1990s.
Blacksheep -
I'd be interested to hear what you mean by cult tactics. I guess I'm concerned because I'm being committed to do certain things and I know they are just doing their job. It's like, I want to trust them - you know? But none of you trust them.
Sacolton -
The whole Joseph Smith thing amazes me, frankly. I've read so much about that guy (stuff from Mormons and stuff not from Mormons) that it could make your head spin. I think the dude was reasonably intelligent. Was he a prophet? (I guess that's what it really comes down to for me to decide.) The Book of Mormon is fascinating to me. Seriously, I don't even thing Steven King could have written something like that. And mormons claim that he translated it in like 90 days. But I see where he did do things that I wouldn't consider a prophet doing. And there are parts of their history that boggle my mind.
Formermormon -
I'm going to ask one of my friends if they teach that Church and God are more important than spouse or family.
Remember the whole Gale Sares book, "I am Third" (by the Chicago Bears running back)? The whole point of that was him stating he put himself after his wife and after god. That's always what I thought they've meant. These young guys out here preaching have had to put God first in their lives. Like Purps has noticed, it's pretty easy to see that they're not digging it most days. But their convinction to stay out here and teach a numbskull like me is compelling. I suppose they could just go home, right?? Are they being held here against their will?? Does anybody know?? From what I understand they do not HAVE to go to the mission, right?
Your posts are quite humorous. "Ex JW's, having been commissioned by the flying spaghetti monster, I apologize for Pillowhead, who is an idiot. In the name of Joseph's Myth. Amen" This was hillarious! Is that what we're going to see on Big Love!!?
Quiz me on anything theological and you'll see I've done my homework. Who doesn't know about the Tanners? Aren't they like the mormons number one source against them? Didn't they make that movie the Godmakers? I've been looking into this stuff for years and years. This isn't the first time I've talked to these guys.
I have nothing against you for where you are in your journey. Sorry if you took offense to my words before. I just do not do well with angst for those that fall away from one group and then seek to tear it down, but who am I to judge? For all I know you and your wife may have dealt with some very painful things. And I would understand this. Can you blame me for these posts wringing in my ears when it goes against where I've been leaning lately?
I guess I've never seen the family as a selling point to religion, for the mormons or any other faith. But it makes sense that they (all religions) use this. Just like countries have always used God to sell their agendas with war.
The whole family thing just makes sense to me conceptually because we are all set up into one, and so are all of the animals to some extent, so that is where I start. And actually that is what is appealing to me about the Mormon faith. It's not that they are family oriented or whatever. It's so easy to love your own child and so natural for a child to love her/his mother (and even his father). It's that they frame our entire existence around a God who loves us like no one else can. And that we're here to make choices and learn and things and that God wants us to be happy. And that happiness comes from serving people like our family and friends. And that it DOES matter what we do and what we say. It matters to other people's happiness. Not that we're just saved one day. We all matter and what we do and say to each other matters.
I've gone from feeling sorry for the Mormons about the Big Love thing to feeling sorry for the abused. If anything this site has taught me about the height of feelings for cults for those who have been hurt or offended or abused by them. I thank all of you for sharing with me. It has broadened my horizon.
Noni1974 -
I'm getting some similar things from these guys.
Rebel -
I would believe that some mormons might come to places like this. They're a pretty ambious bunch! I would have thought my soul isn't worth saving, but these young guys have made me feel otherwise. Seriously, I can't speak for their church, but the love these guys have shown me can't be faked.
It's been tough for me to sort that out.
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FormerMormon
Pillowhead pete. I am glad you have done your homework. I am sure you can tell us about Kinderhook, the Book of Abraham controversy, who Zina Huntington Jacobs Smith Young was, Who JOSEPHINA Lyons was, and why these are relevant to the claims of the mormon church.
I am sure you recognize that when a church can insert itself as proxy for god himself, and people put god(church) first, that this can be VERY dangerous, especially if the church doing this is a cult. What happens if a follower of Jim Jones puts his god and his church first in his life? The answer... suicide.
Most investigators are curious about the temple they want to know more. They don't know about the oaths to secrecy that you mentioned.