Mary, that is one hell of a good answer - got to remember that one!
Wouldn't you love to see the look on the Circus Overseer's face if you gave him this argument??
argument against the faithfull and discreet slave class ?
by KAYTEE 18 Replies latest jw friends
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Mary
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Meeting Junkie No More
Well, I am certain I have both of those bound volumes which I will have at the ready, bookmarked TO THE PAGE if ever confronted with the question of my loyalty to the fds. There is no way to squirm around those quotes. If one is true, the other cannot be and vice versa. Sweet and bitter water bubbling out of the same stream for sure. THANK YOU AGAIN for all your research!
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KAYTEE
Neverendinjourney,
Very good site, very very informative, I will definitely use that site.
Kosonen,
I like your reasoning , good to put it back in their court.
Passwordprotected,
That really is on the ball.
Mary,
You didn’t disappoint me, good to show where their roots come from, how can a true religion build on such nonsense.
Wtwizard,
You mustn’t use the bible, that is really unfair.
As usual all the comments are bang on, It’s a real pity we didn’t have the internet when some of us first joined the clan. We just did not meet the thinking "brothers and sisters" back there, that you prove you are, what a shame.
Thank you I’m sure you have helped others to think for themselves.
KT
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LUKEWARM
Mary, here are some additional questions for the CO:
(1) When did this "slave" come into being?
(2) Has this "slave" had a continuous existence for the past 19 centuries?
(3) Where was this "slave" when Russell got his start?
(4) How could Russel come to a knowledge of truth apart from this "slave?"
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compound complex
IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM
The Faithful and Discreet Slave
Masking Over Reality - For What Purpose?
What, then, does the fictional teaching about a worldwide administrative and spiritual-food-supplying slave "class" accomplish? It provides a prime basis on which the organization's authority rests, by which a small group of men, whose number represents only one-seventh of one percent (0.0014) of the 8,800 "anointed," assumes the right to determine not only what all the "anointed," but in fact all Witnesses, will read, study, believe and practice. By its stress on a "class" it also serves to robe the real authority structure with a shroud of anonymity, giving the appearance of a wide diversity of membership and globality that is 'not of whole cloth,' simply not true. This fictional concept enables the real authority structure - the dozen or so members of the Governing Body - to ask for almost total obedience to their own directives without appearing as arrogant or self-serving [comments on GB's tremendous power]. By speaking of the "faithful and discreet slave class," attention is diverted from the small power group as the true authority structure. As "the slave class" that authority source takes on a certain vagueness, an amorphous quality and an extensiveness belonging to an essentially faceless aggregation that is not definable or identifiable in any real sense for the average member. The euphemistic use of the expression and, surprisingly, their own belief in the concept, also enables the Governing Body members to publish statements calling for almost total submission to their decisions without being troubled personally by a sense ofarrogance. (pp. 163, 164)
Ray Franz concludes this section by stating that the WT's multifaceted claims regarding a "slave class" are "unsupportable, even fictional."
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compound complex
Who Actually Supplies the "Food"?
There were, of course, articles that did come through from "anointed" brothers in different countries [footnote #37: In almost all cases the article came because President Knorr had sent an assignment to the person to write it]. These, however, were subject to review, revision and even total rewriting according to the discretion of the Writing Department overseer, Karl Adams. Yet Karl himself was not of the "anointed." He felt no hesitance in turning over an article written by one of the "anointed" to one of the "other sheep" for reworking or rewriting, and frequently did so.
The sole exception to this rule were the writings prepared by the vice president, Fred Franz. As Karl stated to me, Knorr had made clear that the vice president's writings were to be altered only with the vice president's permission.
Ray Franz concludes this series of paragraphs by indicating that, while Nathan Knorr acknowledged that the majority of the writing was done by the "other sheep" class - it is actually they who do the thinking, development and writing of the material - it is nevertheless read and approved by the "anointed" before printing. This apparently adds an "anointed touch" to the material. Such specious reasoning is lost on those who recognize WHO truly are supplying the "spiritual food." - [ibid., pp. 154, 155]
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compound complex
During the Gilead School graduation exercises, September 7, 1975, Fred Franz admitted to the students and their families that no Governing Body existed during the time of the apostles, nor one since then. He had already concluded that the doctrine of a Governing Body from the days of the apostles to the present was a false teaching. As Franz revealed the unscriptural nature of the doctrine, his audience sat in bewildered silence. The Apostle Paul, he stated, was appointed by Jesus Christ personally, not by any governing body in Jerusalem. In fact, no one in that city was aware of his appointment.
This admission - contrary to official WT teaching of a primary belief - has never been published. Yet, in the December 15, 1975 WATCHTOWER, we read of another speech by Franz, in which he PROMOTES the doctrine of the Governing Body.
Knorr's Attitude Toward the "Oracle"'s Getting Prophecy Right
Upon his deathbed, Rutherford designated Knorr as the new president, whereupon Knorr let it be known to Franz that he did not want to be caught in prophecy failures as Russell and Rutherford had. It so happens that, as history unfolded and left a huge blank, Knorr was known to be disgusted with Franz over the failure of the 1975 prediction.
There are many who feel that his disgust with the pseudo-religion caused him to strike out against his anointed brothers and their false prophecies. His being diagnosed with terminal brain cancer could well have contributed to his alienating himself from his associates of many years. He died without seeing a single prophecy come to pass.
THE FOUR PRESIDENTS OF THE WATCH TOWER SOCIETY (JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES), Edmond C. Gruss, Editor, pp. 40, 41
CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, Raymond Franz, pp. 76-83
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KAYTEE
compoud complex,
V
That’s the type of material that we sadly lacked when we were incarcerated, now wonder the jws steered us clear of this evil Internet. Brilliant
KT
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compound complex
Dear KAYTEE:
We owe a debt of gratitude to those "special pioneers of the truth" who blazed the trail ahead of us, often at great personal risk and loss. I appreciate your putting up this thread.
Wishing you well,
CoCo