Another JW Elder Claiming Clergy Privilage in Court Case

by jamiebowers 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  jamiebowers

  Jws brag that they have no clergy, yet this elder is claiming clergy privilege in a murder case:

  http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_clergy09.3c06480.html
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  sacolton

  Theocratic Warfare Strategy?
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  recovering

  I see that they are again attepting to cover up child abuse also
• 

  Doubting Bro

  They do it when it suits their interests . For several years, I was on a Patient Visitation Group that was assigned to visit sick JWs in a particular hospital. Each week, a different person was assigned to go to the hospital and see if there was anyone who said they were a JW and wanted to be visited by a minister. Actually, this was a Catholic hospital and the father that was over ministerial affairs (or whatever they called the office that coordinated ministerial visits) was a super nice guy. Only elders were permitted to be part of the PVGs because from a legal point of view, they are JW clergy.

  I was given a card that identified me as approved clergy and a clergy parking pass. Of course, I didn't use the pass because it made me feel strange to get perferred parking. But, I still have the card and pass!

  My point is that to say JWs don't have clergy is incorrect. To say they don't have a PAID clergy is probably correct and that's how I seen most JWs refer to the elders/COs/DOs in talks. It would be interesting to see some WT quotes and see if those refer to just clergy or paid clergy.
• 

  Stealth

  It is also odd that the police alerady interviewed the elder 3 times. If he was going to claim clergy privilage why now?

  Or is it because, now he has to take an oath to tell the truth? Think about it!
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  BluesBrother

  So, too, among Jehovah’s Witnesses today, there are no clergy-laity distinctions, no presumptuous titles. All are “brothers” and “sisters,” with older, spiritually mature men taking the lead in serving others.

  g81 10/8 12/13

  There is no clergy-laity distinction. All, regardless of race or social status, are “brothers” and “sisters.” As among first-century Christians, a body of elders is appointed to oversee the activities of the congregation and to provide spiritual help to all. These men are selected on the basis of their Christian maturity, their love, their concern for and willingness to help others. They receive no salary and have no religious titles designating them as a special class, above others. They share in the work of preaching and teaching in the homes of the people, as did the apostles, and as do the rest of the congregation’s members.

  wt74 10/15 630/631

  I noticed when I was looking this up how the emphasis has changed since the 1970's . In those days the stress was on the elder body serving the cong as brothers..Nowadays the flock have to toe the line .

  But any failure or mistakes on the part of certain elders would not justify an insubordinate attitude on our part. Jehovah does not bless disobedience and rebellion

  wt 07 4/01 p30
• 

  sir82

  To say they don't have a PAID clergy is probably correct

  I would disagree with that, at least with regard to COs and DOs.

  I calculated that just the health and car insurance that the Society covers them with are worth more than $1000 per month. Throw in their monthly stipend, living quarters, freshly-leased late-model Buick, and their "expenses" covered by the congregation (not to mention green handshakes) and these guys make out pretty well.
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  rebel8

  Minister may have to testify in murder trial of man who belonged to his church

  10:00 PM PDT on Sunday, March 8, 2009

  By TAMMY J. McCOY
  The Press-Enterprise

  For the second time in a year,a judge should decide Friday if a minister with the Jehovah's Witnesses has to testify about conversations he had with a Murrieta man or if those statements are confidential.

  Prosecutors want Jose Cespedes, an ordained minister with the Spanish Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Temecula,to testify at the trial of Kelle Lee Jarka.

  Jarka is charged with murder in connection with his wife's bludgeoning death at the family's Tamarisk Street home April 28.

  After receiving a subpoena from Jarka's attorney, Cespedes filed the motion asking that the court excuse him from taking the witness stand.

  In court Friday, prosecutor Burke Strunsky said he was surprised by this development because Cespedes had already been interviewed three times.

  "This is an important witness," Strunsky told Judge Judith Clark.

  The motion will be heard by Judge F. Paul Dickerson III, who handled a similar issue that arose in a child molestation case prosecuted by Strunsky.

  In March 2008, Dickerson ruled that elders from another Jehovah's Witnesses congregation had to testify against Gilbert Simental because his statements were never intended to be kept confidential.

  Dickerson determined Simental was not seeking guidance or forgiveness when he talked to the elders during an in-house investigation into reports of child molestation. Simental was ultimately convicted of molesting two young girls.

  Documents filed by Cespedes on Wednesday say Jarka was seeking spiritual guidance when he spoke to Cespedes and expected their conversations would be held in the strictest of confidence. Cespedes should not be ordered to testify because a law commonly referred to as the penitent-clergy privilege protects these conversations, the court papers say.

  Isabelle Jarka, the defendant's wife, called Cespedes on the night of April 27 because her husband did not tell her that a family friend had died of AIDS and was spending a lot of time with the dead man's family, Detective Andrew Spagnolo testified last year.

  Cespedes left the Jarka home at 4 a.m. -- about five hours before Isabelle Jarka, 40, was pronounced dead, according to Murrieta police.

  She was hit in the head 11 times and her body was found on the floor of her home, according to police.
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  rebel8

  I emailed the District Attorney with the quotes Blues Brother posted. It may help his case.
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  sir82

  Cespedes left the Jarka home at 4 a.m. -- about five hours before Isabelle Jarka, 40, was pronounced dead, according to Murrieta police.

  Oh my - that could be big.

  Imagine this scenario - JW wife asks for "shepherding call" - elder goes over to try to help - finally, exhausted, leaves at 4 AM. Husband is royally P-O'ed at wife for involving the elders in a family issue - and takes out his frustration with a baseball bat to her head.

  Wonder what the elder was discussing with them until 4 AM?

  Plus, if he really did go over there alone, he's breaking Society rules for elders - don't make shepherding calls alone. Could someone be protecting someone else?