New Light! Revelations Is Not True!

sammielee24

OK...we had a couple over today for a bible study. Very interesting conversation and quite enlightening. We really wanted to be able to discuss the fallacy of the society based on it's own history.

Skipped the intro and dove directly in to their Watchtower of Jan 15/09, back page. The question was "When did the seven angels prepare to blow their trumpets, and when and how were the trumpet blasts sounded?..this began with the Cedar Point, Ohio, convention in 1922 and lasts all the way down to the great tribulation".

We were ready for their visit and had gone ahead and read the original 1919 Watchtower to find out what was actually said at that conventionl We thought we had them when we pointed out that the Proclamation by Rutherford at that convention was false and therefore, everything following had to be false. After an hour of this debate, they simply said that the history means nothing. They said the Proclamation didn't mean anything and that they (the society) knew that errors had been made and so the past had no relevance on today.

I disagreed and pointed out that it must have significant relevance since despite what they were telling us, the society had in fact used the reference in the Watchtower we were currently discussing. If it had no relevance, then the WTS would not need to link it's current teachings with a past teaching.

They had no answer for that except to say that the society no longer adheres to the teachings of Russell or Rutherford or Knorr. They said that only what is being taught today is what is the truth. This was amazing..head shaking and certainly opened the door for some offshoot in conversation that included misinterpreted scripture and disfellowshipping.

sammieswife.

leavingwt

Sammieswife,

Isn't it maddening!

"He who controls the past, controls the future."

They gloss over everything prior to this week's WT lesson. They see no problem with the discrepancy.

This all begs the question: Why should anyone believe your 'current' truths, when they're all subject to change?

From a believer's standpoint, God and his values don't change. Watchtower literature all has an Expiration Date. They present "changes" as a sign of humility, instead of evidence of big-time screw-ups.

Thanks for sharing this.

-LWT

Dagney

Well done, sw! Very well done.

Absolutely maddening. However, two people may not say the same thing. I think it is a "light brighter" defense...not that they don't believe in Russell, Rutherford and Knorr, (thinking now why didn't they throw F Franz in the mix?).

Honestly, they take it both ways. When it fits today they sing the praises of their history. When it doesn't, they distance themselves and shout "lalalalalala new light!!!!....lalalalalalala imperfect men/not prophets!!!!"

villabolo

You want to know what is the worse thing that could happen to the organization. Another religion identical to them in doctrines but without the history of false prophecies and flip flops. That would really terrify them

wha happened?

it's this fact that has worked well with my wife. How many times prior to the last book of the bible was written did we see several versions of a bible text until "they got it right"?

sammielee24

it's this fact that has worked well with my wife. How many times prior to the last book of the bible was written did we see several versions of a bible text until "they got it right"?

When they pointed out that they 'only follow the Bible'..and kept flipping from scripture to scripture..we brought out 2Cor:7..whereby, the society opposes for example smoking and uses it as a disfellowshipping excuse. I pointed out that the scripture does not mention smoking at all...that particular passage is very vague and used perhaps by other religions to avoid things like caffeine..but in the society a brother who has dedicated his life and his family for 25 years, has been disfellowshipped for that very offense - even though it is not scriptural to do so.

She then argued that we all have the will...which I argued back that smoking is an addiciton and thus it is a medical issue and therefore, even more telling to oust a loyal brother and destroy all of his family at the same time, for a medical issue.

I then followed it with the fact that based on a non scriptural disfellowshipping, that man was shunned by his children and his entire family without one single JW calling on him, until unable to cope he killed himself.

I asked her how as a good Christian, that 'new light' should have been handled by the society and if in fact, it is not in the bible, then are they not relying on a group of men to interpret their bible for them?

She told me that not every Witness who is disfellowshipped though committs suicide...but I reminded her that any death as a result of shunning punishment for a non scriptural offense is one too many. I asked her if she ever took it upon herself to approach a disfellowshipped person and ask them how they are doing or offer some compassion or assistance if they need it. She did not answer...but she did start to cry.

sammieswife.

sammielee24

They gloss over everything prior to this week's WT lesson. They see no problem with the discrepancy.

This all begs the question: Why should anyone believe your 'current' truths, when they're all subject to change?

I think they are a bit frustrated because we got the Watchtower that is meant for the 'insiders'. In fact, we got it and at the meeting on Tuesday, there was a count of all the magazines and an announcement for everyone to bring all their copies back. They are keeping tight track of who has been given what.

As for the truth question - I said the same thing.

If you are telling me that the prophecies from that convention, that you mention in your publication, are in fact lies..false..however you want to spin them, but then tell me you have the truth while using your own publication that references that very lie as part of your truth - then are you not lying to me? If you promote a religion that you know is based on a lie and continue to promote that lie by trying to get me to buy into it - what does that make you?

Your material is full of lies you admit to - but you just finished telling me you have the 'truth'. No answer on that one yet...sammieswife.

sammielee24

I think it is a "light brighter" defense...not that they don't believe in Russell, Rutherford and Knorr, (thinking now why didn't they throw F Franz in the mix?).

LOL..she used the analogy of walking down a dark hallway and seeing a light at the very end...aren't you going to go toward that light?

NO...I'd turn on the light first, I wouldn't stumble along in the dark breaking a few bones before I got to the light...

sammieswife.

Farkel

:We were ready for their visit and had gone ahead and read the original 1919 Watchtower to find out what was actually said at that conventionl

How could you find out what was said at a 1922 Convention by reading a 1919 Watchtower?

Farkel

sammielee24

Oops...sorry...I meant 1922 WT.......been going cross eyed looking at publications and for some reason had 1919 buried in my brain....sammieswife.

New Light! Revelations Is Not True!

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