California to abolish civil marriage?

by BurnTheShips 22 Replies latest social current

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Separation of Marriage and State? Big thumbs up!

    The back-and-forth over Proposition 8, which amended California’s constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman, has generated plenty of debate, heat, and threats — and now a new initiative to change public policy on marriage altogether. Attorney General Jerry Brown has submitted a referendum that would make California the first state in the nation to get entirely out of the marriage business [see update below]. If backers get enough signatures, any new marriages in the state would only get recognized as domestic-partnership contracts:

    California same-sex “marriage” supporters are collecting signatures to support a ballot initiative that would remove civil marriage from California law entirely, as well as the provision codifying marriage as between a man and a woman.

    The “Domestic Partnership Initiative” proposes to categorize all unions simply as “domestic partnerships,” while retaining all the rights of marriage for heterosexual couples, and extending them to homosexual couples. According to the initiative’s summary, “Legally speaking, ‘Marriage’ itself would become a social ceremony, recognized by only non-governmental institutions.”

    State Attorney General Jerry Brown submitted the official title and summary for the measure on Monday, about one week after opening arguments in lawsuits challenging Proposition 8, California’s true marriage amendment.

    Brown realized after the state Supreme Court arguments over his challenge to Prop 8 that he had little chance of reversing it. The justices seemed skeptical of Brown’s assertion that the citizens of the state could not amend the constitution through the referendum process without prior legislative approval, probably because the state has never challenged that right after previous successful initiatives. That means that the only real suspense in the upcoming decision will be whether the state should recognize the 18,000 same-sex marriages certified by the state before Prop 8 passed.

    The DPI is an interesting and provocative referendum that will force people to consider the role of government in social constructs and religious practices. Those who argue that government has a duty to protect the sanctity of marriage will undoubtedly object, but that argument died on a pragmatic basis with no-fault divorce. Though not all states have it, most do, and it demoted the marriage contract to the lowest rung in legal commitments by allowing one partner to break it at will with no consequences whatsoever. On a philosophical basis, libertarians and some small-government conservatives would argue that “sanctity” is a religious/philosophical construct and not something for governments to enforce, anyway.

    As a practical matter, eliminating marriage as a government sanction and forcing couples into partnership contracts would eliminate barriers to adoption and benefits for gay couples, at least in California. It would also avoid the state-recognition issue that the Massachusetts Supreme Court created and which the Defense of Marriage Act attempted to pre-empt. Since the couples would not have government-sanctioned “marriages”, other states would not have to recognize them as such, but the contracts would be enforceable anywhere in the US — probably a lot more enforceable than marriages are today. Those who want to claim “marriage” could have that sanctioned by their religious organizations instead of relying on the state.

    Most opposition to this will rest on adoption and the profound nature of changing the way society treats its foundational building block, the family. In practice, DPI might not really change much anyway, since I believe California allows for private adoptions by singles and gay couples, and people are free to arrange their families in such manner anyway without government approval as “marriage” now. However much the libertarian argument appeals to me — and it does — I have to wonder whether we gain much in taking such a step, and what we lose in comparison.

  • Finally-Free
    Finally-Free

    I would like to see marriage banned entirely. It has never worked. The only time it "appeared" to work was when men had the upper hand and women were afraid to speak out.

    It's too easy to get married and too dificult, costly, and painful to get out of one. Marriage causes more problems than it solves.

    It takes more than a stupid piece of paper to make a family get along.

    W

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Finally free, I would be happy for marriage to remain a private affair, a private contract. If it is a legal contract, it should be enforceable like any other contract. I've been happily married for 14 years, I take it that you had a very bad experience.

    BTS

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    I like this.

    "Marriage" is a religious act.

    The "Civil Union" or "Domestic-Partnership" is the business arrangement that grants such rights as joint bank accounts, medical "immediate family" rights, inheritance and other such rights.

    If someone really wants to go back to "good old fashioned marriages" then we will need to looking into legislation that sets regulations for Bride Prices, Concubine rights and the mans "Ownership Rights" over his purchased wife.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    I've been wanting to see this for years, but I've never heard of anyone else agreeing with me. I feel the religious and legal functions of a formal union should be totally separate for everyone. If you want to get married in a church, do so on the same day as your legal ceremony. (They do this in Europe, no?)

    Recently I heard a rumor that several churches were refusing to perform the legal ceremony of marriage in protest of the violation of homosexuals' civil rights, and just performing religious union ceremonies.

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    Does this mean that one needs a license but the other doesn't require it?

  • PEC
    PEC

    Sounds geat to me.

    Philip

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    Finallyfree-

    I kind of agree with you and don't.

    Pairings to bring up offspring vary in nature so much. I wonder if there is any point modeling the modern legal sytem on the sex TABOOS of stone age Jews.

    The whole point of breeding for them was to ensure there would be somebody to care for the flocks, and the OLD PEOPLE. Homosexuals mean DEAD END for this. Women were property, for sale like a cow.

    Looking at just the world of birds. Creationists ignore the fact that sparrows are promiscuous, the Albatross mates for life, and others pair bond for variable periods.

    Love birds are so devoted that when one dies the other pines away and dies as well.

    So the God who created all thes other variants in pair bonding (including same sex and promiscuity among certain primates) cannot cope with human beings following the patterns he set??

    But then - He cannot even cope with a woman wearing a blue cotton skirt, or putting a piece of food in her mouth in slacks.

    HB

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Some marriage patterns are more universal than others because they are more "fit". More successful.

    BTS

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    > Some marriage patterns are more universal than others because they are more "fit". More successful.

    It is a myth that evolution has anything to do with "Survival of the Fittest".

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