What is your opinion of this noted Bible scholar's inference about JWs?

by Questions1 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Questions1

  The winter 2009 issue of Harvard Divinity Bulletin features a question

  and answer segment with Peter Gomes. Gomes has served

  as a preacher and theologian at Harvard University's Divinity School.

  His book "The Scandalous Gospel of Jesus: What's So Good About

  the Good News?" was released within the last few months.

  In the Q&A, Gomes mentions several points among them are: a) church

  leaders and preachers aren't teaching "hard theological stuff, b) the reason

  is "because we live in a hiring society where 51 percent of the congregation

  are resident voters who can either do you in or do you out,

  c) he wants "people to take their faith seriously so they can see where faith

  works and where it doesn't work, and ask the questions: How do I work, and what do I do?

  Related to his later statement, Gomes said, "Most Roman Catholics, for example,

  can't tell where the pope is right or wrong on any of his moral pronouncements, and

  neither can most Protestants. They may disagree with the pope, but they can't

  argue with him. They don't have the theological or biblical muscle to make the case.

  It's the same thing if you watch mainline liberal Protestants try to argue with a Jehovah's Witness:

  they don't know the text so they can't do it."

  Finally the questions...

  Do you feel like you have a good handle of scripture because of being drilled while in the Borg?

  Does it seem like Gomes' giving JWs props for being able to defend their faith?
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  Sam Beli

  Probably 10 to 20 % of JWs know what scriptures to use and when in support of JW dogma. To the uninformed they sound like intelligent Bible scholars. Most householders are uninformed as the author suggests. I don't think he admires JWs. Rather he seems to be saying that JWs win many debates, not that they are correct.
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  My Struggle

  I don't think that Gomes is really giving the JW much credit. I think that his point is this, There is a group of people that have odd teachings about the bible that are easily defeated with a little bible study, but you cannot do it as a believing Christian.....that is sad, and say a ton about the average Christian's understanding of the bible/how deep their faith is and the failure of church leaders as a whole.

  To your other question. YES and NO.

  NO= It is not because I was drilled, per se, as a JW about the bible but because I was fooledby the WTBTS and wanted to learn what the bible really teached.

  YES= Because they go so far in trying to proove their doctrine it has made me digg deeper than I would have otherwise.
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  BizzyBee

  As someone here asked recently, "Could a JW prove anything about 1914 using only the Bible?"

  Doubtful.

  Do you feel like you have a good handle of scripture because of being drilled while in the Borg?

  Yes and No. Probably moreso because I would not have studied the Bible otherwise, but less so because my

  knowledge was perverted to a narrow mindset of ridiculous beliefs.

  Does it seem like Gomes' giving JWs props for being able to defend their faith?

  Yes. I think this commentator perhaps does not realize how bereft the average JW is of basic, objective Biblical

  knowledge. They only learn what supports a JW stance - nothing more. For most JWs the Bible is a framework of

  aluminum supports - to be bent as needed.
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  Warlock

  I AGREE WITH HIM.

  Warlock
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  thomas15

  Just to add a little clarity to this discussion, Peter Gomes is a total liberal. A Baptist, true, but a liberal Baptist for sure. As a Ivy League pastor he knows the Bible but does not believe any of it. To him, it is just a book.

  Tom
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  Farkel

  Most JWs have only memorized about 25 Bible verse references. After 20 or 30 or 40 years with all those meetings and all that "studying", that's about all they know.

  This is called "Watchtower Scholarship" and is all Bible-Based.

  Farkel
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  Mrs. Fiorini

  BizzyBee makes some very good points:

  "...my knowledge was perverted to a narrow mindset of ridiculous beliefs."

  "I think this commentator perhaps does not realize how bereft the average JW is of basic, objective Biblical knowlege. They only learn what supports a JW stance - nothing more. For most JWs the Bible is a framework of aluminum supports - to be bent as needed."

  I didn't realize it when I was in, but the WT version of "bible" study is not about the bible at all. They have a predetermined and self-serving set of beliefs that they pull scriptures out of context to support. It is in no way a comprehensive, coherent understanding of the bible as a whole.

  The JW knowledge gap in biblical understanding is huge. And yet, because they are not allowed to read religious information that isn't published by the WT, they don't even realize it. The problem is compounded when they call, unannounced, on people at the door who are not familiar with the bible and, compared to them, they feel like bible scholars because they can put two or three scriptures together in a five minute presentation.

  Speaking from the experience of someone who pioneered for four years, I can attest to the fact that their knowledge is limited to a handful of scriptures on a select group of topics that are used to further the agenda of the WT, not promote true bible understanding. Even when the WT quotes scriptures in their books and magazines, they are twisted to serve the interests of the organization, not to help their followers understand the bible.
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  jwfacts

  I thought I had a good handle on the Bible as a JW, because I could "beat" people at the doors. I now realise that I only had it over householders because I had been well trained on a few lines of reasoning that the other person had no idea about. And in cases like the Trinity, if the householder did not come to see my point of view I assumed they were blinded by Satan, not that they were equally versed and convinced in their viewpoint.

  What I have come to learn now is I knew almost nothing about the Bible. A JW studies a handful of key texts ad nauseam and is completely ignorant of the key texts of many other religions. 5% of all JW scriptural citations come from just 5 Bible Chapters, and these mostly concentrate on it being the last days.

  

  I knew little for why other religions are convinced of other doctrine (ie why SDAs follow the Sabbath) and virtually nothing of higher criticism. Furthermore, what I did read against my belief's was always with a critical eye, and hence did not attempt to understand it but rather dismiss it.
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  kurtbethel

  I have found it easy to floor a JW, when asking for scriptural accounts of things such as when Jesus was created, the personality of the holy spirit, and the sequence of events at the last meal with Jesus and his disciples. Even texts which "prove" a WT doctrine are found to have a whole different meaning when the chapter they reside in are taken in entirety.

  Gomes is not giving the JWs much credit, but actually criticizing how little the mainline churchgoer knows.