A belief in an afterlife is the most dangerous of all beliefs

by Awakened at Gilead 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  unclebruce

  A well worded point of view Awakened at Gilead and one, as it states the obvious, I basically agree with.

  I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion though. As tragic as 911 was, numerically it was insignificant when compared with things as seemingly mundane as the US road toll. On the basis of lives cost, the belief in honey is far more dangerous than belief in an afterlife with hundreds dieing year in, year out to bee stings. And motor transport takes infinitely more lives (something like 400,000 plus since Sept 11 2001) and is therefore far more dangerous. We could say Christianity and it's belief in an afterlife cost millions of lives last century but what of the massive secular/athiest/communist/socialist inspired slaughter of Hitler, Stalin and Mao?

  I think beliefs set in stone are always a danger to free and independant thinking. Belief and anti-belief are facets of the same coin as are so called right and left politics. Long live the free and open exploration of nature's questions and avoidence of simplistic conclusions, stuck in the mud inertia that causes division and atrophy of spirit and mind.
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  quietlyleaving

  It is well known that the 9-11 attackers had a belief in an afterlife. As the story goes, apparently they believed that after they would die gloriously, having killed thousands of American infidels, they would be taken into paradise and would enjoy the company of 72 virgins. its well known but its not true. People give their lives for political reasons to, for honour, etc I think it is quite easy to see the connection between the belief in such an afterlife and the nefarious deeds that these men committed. I seriously doubt that they would allow their lives to evaporate in smoke if they believed that such an afterlife would not exist. very weak analogy because belief in an afterlife usually has the opposite effect

  For many people the hope of an after life prevents them from committing atrocities. 9/11 is a bad example to use and it is more of a political statement rather than a spiritual one.

  Jerhovahs witnesses can easily refute your argument as they do not take up arms and are very vocal about that so in a sense you will be doing them a favour rather than making them question their beliefs. (I'm assuming that you are anti-witnessing)
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  Narkissos

  This raises the question of how far we believe our "beliefs". Also, why we believe them in the first place.

  History, power and mind control, propaganda, education, of course. But that doesn't tell all the story. We also want to believe -- to an extent.

  On the surface, we want life and fear death: from this perspective belief in the afterlife is appeasing, provided it is not believed enough to lead to choosing death. But at a deeper, unconscious level, the opposite might as well be true: we also want death and fear life (cf. Freud's Todestrieb or "drive to death"). Which makes our connection to beliefs about life and death very complex imo.

  The strange but powerful appeal of asceticism, sacrifice, martyrdom, self-denial, cross or nirvâna mysticism, doesn't all rest on the promise of "fullness" that is supposed to lie behind. There is an attraction of the negative itself -- which notions like the absolute or eternity conceal under apparently positive values. It is questionable whether a belief in "what comes after" (such as hell or paradise) could be strong enough for anybody to actually choose death on this sole ground, if there were not a dark, unavowable "drive to death" at work for which belief in the afterlife is rather an avowable rationalisation than a real cause...
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  WTWizard

  At least atheists and God haters will not waste this life trying to pursue a next life. As I see it, why should this life be an audition for the next? And, what does that result in? People not getting anything out of this life, just because they are worried about going to hell or getting barred from the "real" life.

  Of course I reject Jesus--he is dead, and never got resurrected (that is, I reject the ransom sacrifice of Jesus). I do not believe that we were born with original sin, nor do I believe Jesus' death inherently saves anyone. In time (and, in fact I think there is a fair chance that it has already happened), another person is going to die trying to fix society. And, in a few hundred years, after the governments unsuccessfully try to stop it, they will corrupt it. It will become the new religion, it will incorporate the Original Sin doctrine with the new savior, and of course be completely different from what the person actually taught. A new Dark Ages is likely at that point.
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  happpyexjw

  Interesting point Narkissos. At least for me, it is true that wanting to never die was a factor in my belief. Even after leaving the wts I wrestled with this one. It has taken nearly 20 years to get to the point where I can accept that there is probably no paradise after death. If there is, I have lived my life as a good person, genuinely trying to be kind to all and to hurt no one. On the other hand, if there is no afterlife, I have lived at least part of my life fully. My only regret is the 30 years I wasted by not developing my artistic talent, going to college and finding a true love with whom to share my life. That makes me very sad at times.

  Interesting discussion
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  Psychotic Parrot

  I'm beginning to reject the idea that Jesus even existed, let alone the idea that he should be my mediator on judgement day. Anyone who has looked into the REAL history of the bible (not the history that the bible itself promotes) will know that the idea of judgement day is ludicrous and childish.

  Being an atheist doesn't require commitment to any idea, it simply is a lack of belief in God, not a rejection of all otherworldy intelligence theories.

  And even if there is a creator who designed this universe, there is no way to prove it & it's pretty obvious that this creator isn't the biblical one, since he is a self-contradictory being (if you compare opposite ends of the bible).

  Anyway, good thread, i don't believe in an afterlife, but i do think that with the way technology is advancing these days, it isn't unreasonable to believe that those of us alive today (especially those of us under the age of 50) will live long enough to have the opportunity (thanks to future technological and medical advances) to live a very very long time, though probably not forever.
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  quietlyleaving

  also a belief in an afterlife communicates that life does go on which we know it does (just not as ourselves). Another point is that we know that there is impact from living and dying so in that sense too life continues. Rather than being dangerous to believe in an afterlife I rather think that it is valid and positive to do so . So there isn't an afterlife but there is life after

  thanks for raising the issues though because they need discussing I guess.
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  Narkissos

  ql

  Inasmuch as "belief in an afterlife" is a way for the mortal individual to relate, symbolically, to the ongoing story of life in both a natural and cultural sense -- as it opens our "selves" beyond a narrow view of identity (what makes "me" started long before I was born and will go on, slightly but definitely modified by whatever I have been, said and done), we probably all believe in an afterlife.

  The problem is when literal belief in an afterlife (as either personal salvation or damnation) results in the opposite, namely in closing up our sense of "self" so that nothing else matters to us.

  Maybe another occurrence of focusing on the finger pointing to the moon instead of the moon itself -- unfortunately a very widespread one in Western religion.
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  quietlyleaving

  ql Inasmuch as "belief in an afterlife" is a way for the mortal individual to relate, symbolically, to the ongoing story of life in both a natural and cultural sense -- as it opens our "selves" beyond a narrow view of identity (what makes "me" started long before I was born and will go on, slightly but definitely modified by whatever I have been, said and done), we probably all believe in an afterlife. The problem is when literal belief in an afterlife (as either personal salvation or damnation) results in the opposite, namely in closing up our sense of "self" so that nothing else matters to us. Maybe another occurrence of focusing on the finger pointing to the moon instead of the moon itself -- unfortunately a very widespread one in Western religion.

  Narkissos, gotcha

  I'm begining to realise how much Western religion infiltrates even general atheistic concepts through the backdoor as it were and closes "up our sense of self so that nothing else matters to us".
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  restrangled

  From Awakened:

  In a sense then, for JWs, life is cheap. It does not matter if they die, since they will wake up instantly in the new world.

  You bet Awakened! The following were my life time messages from not only my parents but every relative I knew:

  "This isn't the real life; I can hardly wait to die; I'm waiting to die; forget it, you can persue your dreams in the "New Order", our responsibility now is to preach. In addition, what a selfish person you are; the end is almost here, what are you thinking, this is Satans hold on this system; you won't reach highschool.

  The bottom line was You won't, you can't, your dead.....but thats ok cause you'll wake up in the "New Order, perfect, able to persue and do anything you want!!!!!!!

  1975 hysteria, for any wondering.

  r.