Need your comments on Luke 20:34,35 (page 2)

Morbidzbaby

I've struggled with this myself. It makes absolutely no sense to me when explained by the WTS. I look at my parents and their relationship. Both are dubs. They ADORE each other. My dad has so many plans for the "New System" and they all involve mom. He wants more children with her. He wants to be with her forever. Yet, what if mom dies? What if dad dies? According to JW beliefs, neither will be able to be with the other in any other way but as brother and sister...as friends. And even then, because they are male and female, it would be frowned upon for them to be close friends. because we all know that friendships with the opposite sex can NEVER be platonic! The resurrection theory was my reason for ignoring the advice to "wait until the New System" to have children. What if I die? Then I would have no mate, and thus be unable to have children at all! And I wanted to be a mother, so their advice went in one ear and out the other. Same with their prohibition on remarriage after divorce (if it was not a divorce due to infidelity). Okay, so I can't stand being with my husband, I'm miserable, and I want out. I can separate, I can eventually divorce (but not without the elders trying to coerce me to choose otherwise), but I cannot remarry. If I do, I will be disfellowshipped for adultery. Okay...but that also means if I make it through "Armageddon", I'll be married to this bastard for-fucking-EVER!! Oh but we'll be PERFECT! So he'll be a perfect asshole!

So in other words, in JW-land, those who die beforehand will be resurrected, but SORRY! You're gonna be lonely, unfulfilled, and childless. What an existance! But, what a GIFT from Jehovah! *eye roll*

truthlover

Morbizbaby:

I have to admit I kinda laughed at your response, cause its right on but your flowery language hit me funny..

I am not in a position to know your situation but I wish you the best in life - looks like you r a newbie -- hi - I havent been on too long myself

Its your life and you have to have that personal relationship with God and pray things will get better, if not, make the best move for the kids and yourself - life is funny, things eventually work out... sometimes its a long, hard process.. and even tho I have a lot of questions on this scripture, my husband just died recently and this scripture is bothering me somewhat as we did have a great marriage

I know that I can wait to see what will happen in the new system - he will open his hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing - I guess until we get there, we wont know how extensive this scripture is

All the best

Narkissos

Sorry to hear that truthlover

The WT explanations (cf. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/173770/1/Marriage-in-the-Resurrection) are painful indeed because their understanding of "earthly" resurrection is actually quite like the caricature of resurrection which the Sadducees (who didn't believe in resurrection at all) portrayed in the Synoptic Gospels, as a kind of "strawman argument". Jesus counters it with a more "spiritual" view of resurrection ("like the angels in heaven") of which the absence of marriage is an integral part. Keeping the letter of Jesus' reply while missing its spirit results in a rather cruel absurdity. The picture of the "world to come" which this text offers does not imply that a few people will remain single just because they died and had to be resurrected while others would remain married, or could marry, because they never died. This difference of status is totally unscriptural and, afaik, foreign to any Jewish or early Christian view of the "world to come".

Narkissos

Let me illustrate what JWs have to read into this passage to make it suit WT doctrine:

Jesus said to them, "Those who belong to this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are considered worthy of a place in that age and in the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage (hmm, well, actually only those who are resurrected, because others will be considered worthy of a place in that age without dying and they will remain married; or, if they were single, they can marry then -- not with anyone resurrected though; oh gosh, Jesus did mix things up a little, he could have been clearer). Indeed they cannot die anymore (well, they can die, and some will, but others won't, although no one can say for sure, they all have free will), because they are like angels (careful, just for not dying, I mean maybe not dying; otherwise they are not like angels at all) and are children of God, being children of the resurrection (hmm wait, there is actually more to being children of God than being resurrected; they -- I mean some of them, maybe -- will become children of God a few hundred years later). And the fact that the dead are raised Moses himself showed, in the story about the bush, where he speaks of the Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Now he is God not of the dead, but of the living; for to him all of them are alive (in fact, they are plain dead, just "alive in his memory" so to speak, since they were not of the 144,000 they can't be really alive; btw I don't really understand how that proves resurrection but I suppose it does)."

oompa

i keep tellin you guys what is in the new scrolls......the CONCUBINE arrangement is coming BACK!....that is why it is paradise!....so you arent married...but are a concubine...PLUS!......there have always been more women than men on earth......i know i would be willing to help a few out...ok...a dozen...solomon went way overboard..........oompa

truthlover

Oompa -- sounds like you are wishing -- in your posts you say you have a great wife -- I dont think she would want you to have any side action!

Me a concubine - never thought of that one.. I dont think so - not built for it

Narkissos-like your interjections, makes sense - comes down to it, we really dont know - I will be checking it out in the NT Greek to see what play on wording there is, I just checked with Blue Letter Bible.com for this particular scripture and one translation said " marriage is for the earth".... The greek Interlinear intro that is right now on my kitchen table states that many changes were made from original texts that were written in Hebrew so I guess when it comes down to it, do we know exactly what was meant after so many translated the scriptures? Jesus may have spoken more on this subject but until we get there, if we do or I should say, I do, I guess we will know... its a quandry thats for sure

oompa

truth lover....hey if it came through WT...my wife would be fine with my harem!....and ya...it was gods OT arrangement...and so was perfect people in paradise right?...so i guess the two go together....since married couples would hate to be apart...and the guy may have loved all of his 7 wives......to me it is the logical solution!!....that hope (if it were real)....would prob be enough to get me to go back to all the meetings and go in service!!.......oompa

truthlover

Oompa -- hey it was one woman with the 7 brothers -- how does that sound to you? She was the lucky one...

Narkissos

truthlover,

I don't remember the WT ever saying that the Gospels were written in Hebrew (but I may be mistaken). As far as I can recall, that's what they (and a few others) used to claim for Matthew only (based on a famous and probably misunderstood quote of Papias by Eusebius).

As you're at it, you can compare the Synoptic parallels of this passage and see how they develop in Greek wording from Mark to Matthew and Luke. The literary development from one to another is quite apparent, and it is hardly a matter of independent translation of some Hebrew (or Aramaic) text.

Maddie

When Jesus replied to the Saducees question about marriage, He knew they had no belief or understanding about the resurrection or spiritual things. The WT are in the same category in their lack of spiritual insight because of their erroneous teachings.

Life in the resurrection will not be based on the principles we live under now, but in a completely different dimension that we can't even imagine

Maddie

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