I think this belief is very flawed. Apparently Satan said that humans only serve god because he gives humans nice things, well Satan is right. Do you know any JW that would do all what they do if they would not have their hope? When you think about it JW are very selfish (just like their god) they are willing to shun their love ones just to get their reward even they force their belief on others and risk their children's lives just for a reward. Most JW do what they are told because they fear punishment. Jesus also did what he did knowing he would be resurrected. The real hero here is Satan, he gave his live to free humans from enslavement to god. It's not Satan who lied to Eve it's Jehovah. It's not Satan that condemned humanity it's Jehovah.
WHY can't Jehovah "REINSTATE" Satan?
by african GB Member 36 Replies latest jw experiences
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Jim_TX
"...They Jws have riden a rocky path to were they are today and I think it has more ways to go, Our leaders have made mistakes in applying bible principle but I could say the same of any Religion."
Based upon this one statement - if they are all wrong, any religion should be okay. No need to pick - and - choose - the JWs above any other like Baptists or Lutherans or even Catholics.
At least the Catholics have the balls to admit - publicly - when they have made a mistake.
Regards,
Jim TX
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sir82
Our leaders have made mistakes in applying bible principle but I could say the same of any Religion.
Gotta love this argument.
"Our religion is slightly less fu#$%ed up then other religions out there....so join up with us!"
So all that "spirit anointing", er "spirit direction". er "spirit guidance" gets you is a slightly lower mistake rate?
Not exactly a ringing endorsement, is it?
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poppers
reniaa - please answer Vinny's question about letting your little girl die rather than let her have blood. It's a straight forward question he asked - what's your answer, yes or no? I'm really curious to know your answer, too.
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isaacaustin
You have certainly bought into all the anti-witness propoganda, They Jws have riden a rocky path to were they are today and I think it has more ways to go,
You think? The WT has quite a tarnished history...especially in light of their claim to be God's sole channel of truth. In no way do they stand out as different or better in any way.
Our leaders have made mistakes in applying bible principle but I could say the same of any Religion.
They sure have made MANY MAJOR mistakes. We are not talking of other religions. We are speaking of the one proclaiming for itself the title of God's faithful and discreet slave.
Show me one that has it perfectly? On ly Jesus was perfect having Gods blessing in humans like Moses, David and solomon, the rabinic Priesthood did not guarentee Perfection in teaching and it doesn't now. The appostles dealt with this problem too and they had disagreements we can read about.
An org is not the way to God or to salvation....So your spinoff of the where else is there to go/who else has it perfect is simply a smokescreen and completely irrelevant. Peter asnwered the question of where our allegiance goes at John 6:68. Jesus.
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Vinny
Reniaa says:..."HI Vinny You have certainly bought into all the anti-witness propoganda"...
**** Propaganda? Sorry, not here Reniaa. Just open your eyes.
Name one thing I wrote that is misleading or untrue Reniaa. I have bought into the facts as they truly are. I have examined these things for a very long time to make sure they were true Reniaa. I left after 15 years of being a dedicated, baptized JW. This was no easy decision. I suffered greatly because of this decision to leave. Propaganda bologna. Show me where one thing I wrote is not true.
If you wanted to buy an old house for sale and asked the owner what issues there might be with that house and they truthfully told you it had certain specific problems (perhaps it floods the living room if the drains are not kept clean), would you say such information is propaganda Reniaa? Would you label it as "apostate", "bad or dangerous information", Reniaa?
You see many times information, even if critical, is a good thing to have and share. As long as it is HONEST. What I posted was very truthful Reniaa. And notice, you did not refute one single bit of it. Just complained that Vinny has bought into some propaganda nonsense.
Not very convincing Reniaa.
Reniaa then says:.." They Jws have riden a rocky path to were they are today and I think it has more ways to go, Our leaders have made mistakes in applying bible principle but I could say the same of any Religion."
**** Which is exactly the point I am making. The JW religion is no better than any other religion Reniaa. Just read your own quote again. In fact, because the JW's make such great and grandiose claims as being "the one true Faith", "God's channel", "the truth", "all others to be destroyed and are false religions", all along with having the absolute WORST track record of any religion over the past 100 years http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm actually makes them WORSE than other faiths out there today.
That list should show you just how wrong the JW leaders have been over just 100 years Reniaa. That is as bad as it gets Reniaa.
Reniaa says:..."Show me one that has it perfectly? Only Jesus was perfect having Gods blessing in humans like Moses, David and solomon, the rabinic Priesthood did not guarentee Perfection in teaching and it doesn't now. The appostles dealt with this problem too and they had disagreements we can read about."
**** Sure the apostles and bible writers personally made mistakes just like people today personally make mistakes.
But JW's have PUBLISHED numerous mistakes, then forced them on all JW's (at risk of being disfellowshipped and losing God's favor along with everything you know), while at the same time claiming those published mistakes were, "Food from God".
When the disciples wrongly thought that Kingdom Rule was about to begin they ASKED JESUS ABOUT IT ... and he corrected them.
They did not PUBLISH THOSE WRONG BELIEFS, as "food from God" as JW's have done again and again only to be proven wrong again and again.
If they did then the bible would not be anything more than some good book to most folks today.
If the bible writers had the same sorry history as the JW's do today then all credibility that God is behind the bible writers would be shot down in flames.
The printed page tells it like it is Reniaa.
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part2.htm
Here is what YOU WROTE less than a year ago Reniaa: "I've been thinking all night how Jw's could drop the date issue and blood, soften the shunning and allow higher education without losing a lot of members. Religions need to change and grow and it's time JW's had a makeover, they did it in the past they just got to learn how to do it now." And here was my reply: ***** Do you really realize what you just said? I'd suggest you think carefully about this. You disagree with the WT Society on Blood, you disagree on their current application of shunning and you disagree on specific date issues. Those are HUGE DISAGREEMENTS Reniaa. BIG PROBLEM HERE. Let's just suppose they do CHANGE-UP on blood and now make it a conscience matter. You tell me Reniaa, what do YOU SAY to all those parents of kids that already died for this policy that is wrong? What about the twins (when they get older), or the husband of that mother that just died because of this same policy on blood? And literally tens of thousands of others that are already buried because of this bad policy that you so happen to agree is a bad policy. If they are wrong on blood today Reniaa, as you seem to believe (and which is why I actually walked away from the JW's two years ago) then who actually made those decisions, had them published in the WT magazines and then decided to ENFORCE those decisions through extreme shunning practices and threats of losing God's favor? Was it God that made the bad policy that says people (ncluding children) must die, rather than accept blood from a living human donor in emergency situations? Or would that horrendous decision be from a few fallible men in NY city? The very same men that already got Vaccinations WRONG... along with Organ transplants WRONG, Alternative Service WRONG, Beth Sarim, Rape Rules, Marriage Ties not being broken by sex with animals or homosexuality and hundreds of other things like these? Do you see the problem you have now? These things prove to most thinking people that God has not chosen the WT Society at all. There are many good things about the Mormons too. They are very moral people, have closer family ties (and family study nights) than the JW's do. They do not do drugs, or drink any alcohol, they go door to door worldwide and have a very united brotherhood along with twice as many in number as the JW's. But do these positive qualities then mean that they alone have the true faith? Well, this is what Mormons believe about Mormons btw, that they are the true church today. (I have the e-mails to prove it). Just like JW's believe about JW's. But when you look at either religious institution more closely, you will see numerous problems. (Like a pretty car but with engine rods a knocking).... YOU WILL NOT ONLY HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT HORRENDOUS BLOOD POLICY RENIAA, BUT MUST TEACH IT AND INSIST OTHERS FOLLOW IT TO EVEN GET BAPTIZED. IS THIS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU? Same goes for policies on shunning, the current teachings on all dates and everything else. You simply MUST ACCEPT these things and even promote them to others to become and to remain a JW. Which is why so few ever become a JW once they learn all the facts. And though despite SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCES ARE HEAPED UPON THEM, many even go as far as leaving the JW's once they have been truly enlightened. As happened with me. And often will end up stopping by here. Keep examining, examining, examining Reniaa. Wishing you and yours all the best, Vinny **** Memory refreshed now? That is why I am asking you today, one year later, do you allow your little girl to die if blood can save her? Do YOU DIE if blood can save YOU? Remember this story Reniaa? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2809423.ece Will you shun your own daughter if she decides to just leave the faith Reniaa. My wife and I are shunned and she never even disassociated. Her own 23 year old son will not even answer the phone! This is why you must answer these questions in your own heart at the very least if not here. You have many questions unanswered, for a long time now Reniaa. Why is that? Look forward to your reply this time Reniaa. Aloha, Vinny
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Maddie
Well, its simply because Satan has never been repentent!
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jookbeard
could it be , and this is a long shot that perhaps neither of them exist?
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Vinny
Reniaa is one fast rabbit again.
Reniaaa, I have many questions and thoughts posted just for you. Easy questions, with yes or no answers available.
But you pulled another JW three step shuffle with a twist out the door trick.
Nothing new again.
Silly Wascally wabbit.
Vinny
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Confession
"You have certainly bought into all the anti-witness propoganda, They Jws have riden a rocky path to were they are today and I think it has more ways to go, Our leaders have made mistakes in applying bible principle but I could say the same of any Religion. Show me one that has it perfectly? On ly Jesus was perfect having Gods blessing in humans like Moses, David and solomon, the rabinic Priesthood did not guarentee Perfection in teaching and it doesn't now. The appostles dealt with this problem too and they had disagreements we can read about."
I know others have commented on the above reasoning, but I can't hold back from doing so as well. This is an incredibly common line of reasoning that still-clinging JWs move toward. Why? I believe it is because of the foundational understanding JWs have as to the role they occupy in the world: "We are right; you are wrong."
Therefore anything that contradicts this perception is dealt with in a defensive stance: "Well, we might be wrong in some ways--but we are LESS wrong than other religions. So this somewhat less degree of wrongness still identifies us as The True Religion."
Reniaa, speaking as another former elder, and third-generation JW--who left when he finally decided to become completely honest with himself--what really does the Society claim for itself? They claim...
-That they are the "sole channel of communication" from God.
-That they are prophets, but not precisely the same kind of prophets that God always raised up before.
-That, instead of inspiring prophets to relay quite exactly what He wanted them to--as He always did before--they are the sort of prophet that God is, well, just giving a somewhat vague flow of general "guidance" to.
-That, even though we are living in the most important time in human history--a time when all people will soon be judged everlastingly--God has chosen not to use the sort of prophet he always did before, namely one who tells it EXACTLY as He wants them to, in favor of one who has, hundreds of times, published things which were wrong, changed course--not only once--but in an ever flipping/flopping manner.
-That, even though they have a consistent record of being wrong, they should be excused from scrutiny, because they are a very special kind of prophet. They are the one and only prophet that has been given exemption from his clearly-stated proof of prophetic status, identified in Deuteronomy 18:21 & 22...
21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’
-That, despite the comedy of errors and flip-flops, despite them being scripturally identified as a false prophet, that this be--not simply excused--but obvious to one and all that they represent God's sole channel of communication, to the degree that you who ONCE AGREED must FOREVER AGREE, under penalty of official shunning by (potentially) your entire family and community of friends.
Quite a position they claim for themselves...