V ; you should go back and read this old poster named "JT" he worked on conventions and handled the $$$$ . he made many posts on this topic. love your videos. J rutherFRAUD
Convention-Assembly CONTRIBUTIONS, Elder Experience Required
by V 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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lurk3r
ATJ - Sometimes I accidentally eat rocks. I'm not to smart. I'm also ugly, but that's beside the point.
edit: it took me a minute to understand your explanation...need.more.iron.
I remember at my Circuit Assembly, hearing "defecit" a lot. I felt a tad guilty for not contributing. Hell with it though, even if I put some in, im sure i just would have felt guilty thinking it wasn't enough or something.
This gets me a little warm under the collar. I understand what your saying now. Thank you for explaining. A little vague for my fragmented brain, but i got it.
I always wondered how they knew what the expenses were going to be! It took my Dad's hydro bill a month to come in!
Seriously though. They average everything out based on the numbers in attendence right? I understand that they have to "crunch some numbers" before the whole "circuit chain" makes its way through the building over the months. But is everything "readjusted" for the ACTUAL attendence of THAT assembly? It would have to be i imagine. Cause if they ran a deficit for every assembly, then by the time it gets to the last meeting there, there would be an announcement that would have a HUGE number.
The word deficit is a terrible word. Think they are instructed to use it, as opposed to "running a little behind"? how would the numbers be played with ATJ?
Hmm. Who makes up that particular committee? Assorted elders?
Edit : Did you find that certain ones would write checks for personal acknowlegement? Sure it's not a write off if it's cash, but big cheques must have had to come in.
lurk3r
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AllTimeJeff
ATJ - Sometimes I accidentally eat rocks. I'm not to smart. I'm also ugly, but that's beside the point.
???
May I suggest eating grains, fruits and vegetables? This will no doubt improve both health, brain function, and your overall appearance...
Having collected the money, I can tell you that every $20 was great, but having signed checks so we could see who was contributing what was even better....
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lurk3r
It took me a few minutes to "digest" what were you saying in trying to explain defecits ATJ....I think i was editing that post when you were replying to it or something. Hence the "I eat rocks".
How would/or could the numbers be fudged? I imagine that if they were to be played with, it would have to be in "non obvious" way . Perhaps money was "shifted" towards certain things and not others leaving "defecits"? Which brothers were responsible for this ? Higher ups? Local BOE's?
The "predetermind number" that was put out there. Do you know anything of it, like what was actually included in it? Did the number have to do with things regarding costs outside of the circuit assembly?
You talked about chq's. Did you ever take note of certain brothers making contributions,via cheque's, JUST so there would be a name associated with the contribution? I imagine it may be hard to tell, since it is a preferred form of "contibution" so that you can "write it off" inside of a personal buisness.
Surely you have some great stories in these things Jeff.
thanks
lurk3r
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SnakesInTheTower
All assemblies start out with a "deficit," even if not a "debt". A circuit can have funds on hand in the local bank and/or with the Society but have a deficit for that particular assembly (this is for CA and SAD). At the assembly halls owned by the Society, an annual accounting of the expenses is compiled and divided by the number of publishers in each part of a circuit. That per capita amount (usually between $5 and $8) is multiplied by the number of publishers and that amount is the "bill" the circuit gets for their assembly. I know, I seen the accounts and expenses for the local assembly hall when I would talk with the elder that took care of the bookeeping.
If it is an event at a non-JW facility, then the expenses are tallied and divided the same way and a bill is submitted to the circuit elders.
At SADs, circuit and district assemblies a deficit is always always always announced no matter what the actual contributions are...why? because if they announced a surplus, then the donations would stop before the end of the event.
Added to the actual expenses of the facility, the circuit elders will have a "business meeting" to rubber stamp other obligations already decided upon by the CO, DO, Assembly Overseer and his Assistant. Add in these "donations" to the Worldwide Work, the Society Kingdom Hall Fund, the Disaster Relief Fund (now rolled into the WWW fund), and sometimes additional donations to the capital fund of the assembly hall.
One time though, several thousand dollars worth of donations were approved for local congos to assist them because they were having financial dificulties..... a definite no no but a nice gesture. This happened while I was attending MTS. I happened to attend MTS at my home assembly hall. I attended our circuit's business meeting which was being held below the classroom. The door open to the stairs to the classroom so the instructor could hear this (hmmm I wonder who did that).... he was livid.... circuit donations are only to be used for circuit expenses and Society donations.... I think those donations were made, but never again... LOL. I think the instructor bent the locals ears.
For district conventions, the society pays for all of the expenses up front, and all donations go back to the Society. Any excess over and above expenses also go back to WWW funds. It is not held over from year to year.
In any of these cases, if there is a deficit, if it is not a big amount, the local elders stupid enough to still be on site afterwards are made aware of it and usually checkbooks and wallets are brought out to take care of it. If it is a larger amount, letters are sent out to the attending congos in the circuit/district reminding them of their privilege of assisting with the deficit.
What a twisted thing...and who of you have seen the "accounting" forms used by the Society? IMHO, these forms do not resemble anything resembling GAAP accounting rules. I know, I am taking accounting classes right now.
I once said something to the elder that did the audits for the CA and SADs for our circuit...he was the Accounting Overseer! How is that possible? Where are the checks and balances? The Overseer audits his own books? Especially when I found out years later that his wife was stealing money from one of her clients...sheesh... I think it still happens, even though I said something to the CO at the time.
Glad I am done with it.
Snakes ()
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AllTimeJeff
It took me a few minutes to "digest" what were you saying in trying to explain defecits ATJ....I think i was editing that post when you were replying to it or something. Hence the "I eat rocks".
Oh... Gotcha. Thats cool actually. I like obscure ways to say things....
How would/or could the numbers be fudged? I imagine that if they were to be played with, it would have to be in "non obvious" way . Perhaps money was "shifted" towards certain things and not others leaving "defecits"? Which brothers were responsible for this ? Higher ups? Local BOE's?
They can be fudged simply because the numbers are the sheer invention of the assembly hall committee after approval is given from the branch. Even when the elders are given the numbers in the circuit business meeting, we don't get any input on the numbers. We are given a list of checks the assembly committee wants to write, and we are asked to approve them. It is expected.
The elders are asked to approve as representatives of the congregation any expenditures. They don't originate anything. They can ask to see documentation, etc. They can also get black marked as a trouble maker who doesn't trust YHWH's representatives.
The "predetermind number" that was put out there. Do you know anything of it, like what was actually included in it? Did the number have to do with things regarding costs outside of the circuit assembly?
Only that its a predetermined number that the branch approves of. It does include operating expenses for the actual assembly, other projects related to the assembly, other expenses related to the circuit, like schools, airline tickets, etc... So yeah, that number was not solely tied to the assembly.
You talked about chq's. Did you ever take note of certain brothers making contributions,via cheque's, JUST so there would be a name associated with the contribution? I imagine it may be hard to tell, since it is a preferred form of "contibution" so that you can "write it off" inside of a personal buisness.
This is a hard one to answer.... We giggled at some names, wrote some letters so that those with the right amount of checks could get their tax write off.... The most preferred contribution was the one that was made of course....
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jwfacts
Here is an interesting post by JT on how it was worked out.
He says the expense is calculated as about $11.50 per publisher. Then to this are added costs. This is regardless of whether the assembly hall is paid off or not.
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lurk3r
Hoe-lee-sheet.
Snakes,ATJ, JWFACTS - your experience shows.
Thanks for helping me along by answering those guys.
I sit here in disbelief. I mean, WOW. I read that link(goddamnit!) and pffffft. This whole organization really is a work of art eh? Its all a big double decoy. When I was a joe, i was so consumed with wondering about all things "spiritual", and wondering if I was "good enough". Right now, at this very moment I can see it! "keep em busy thinkin about something else" and they won't question about the money, CAUSE THEY WONT BE ABLE TO THINK ABOUT IT!
Your comment too ATJ, thanks for the clarification. I have to ask. As one in charge of collecting, did you actually see a "spike" in contributions after those "pep defecit" talks?
Now, in my ignorance, it really all boils down to money. But, to rank and file JW's it DOES NOT MATTER how its done. We all know that. They trust the slave and thats that. Period. The REAL question? How does one know what is done with the money that is sent to HQ? Every joe nowadays will say " It's all used to further the "Kingdom Work". IS it?
I just about shit my pants on another thread here where blondie highlited some material about "tipping your hat to women". Just how deep is this rabbit hole going to go?
Lurk3r
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drew sagan
All of this run around just to get past simply charging people for a ticket or suggested donation?
I suppose the general idea is that they end up making more $$$ this way?
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lurk3r
Drew..I would wager a guess to say that it is the same as literature. Taxes.