Are there things they DON'T tell you until AFTER you're baptized? (page 2)

slimboyfat

Remember: Nobody joins a destructive cult. They're recruited into it.

Cool so that makes me like completely at the mercy of outside actors then, with no personal responsibility.

jwfacts

If a person gets baptised after just one study book (as I expect most from the territory do) they know very little about the Watchtower.

They dont know the history of failed prophecy
They dont know many reasons they can be disfellowshipped - ie oral sex
They dont know the ridiculous interpretations, such as the number of prophecy that are said to have pointed to Rutherfords talks and Watchtower editions
They don't know hat Jesus is not their mediator

All they know is a vague explanation of the general, more palatable doctrine.

leavingwt

Cool so that makes me like completely at the mercy of outside actors then, with no personal responsibility.

Actually, you could be controlled while being accountable/responsible. They think they are doing what THEY want to do. If they're adults, they are accountable, no matter how misguided or controlled. What a tragedy.

Here's how Robin Jackson describes it:

Mind Control is not some mystical, magical, and invisible force that cults use to take away people’s free will. Rather, it is a psychological technique that cult leaders attempt to control their members with. It does not turn people into some remote-controlled robot. In contrast, it is a dishonest influence placed very inconspicuously on cult members by the cult. So instead of Mind Control being some sort of irresistible force used to take over peoples minds, it is much more like a loaded gun. The cult leadership points the “gun” at a member and says “if you leave us you will lose all your friends and family”. . .

I was once controlled in this way. I was a victim. I have great empathy for those in this situation.

redking

I agree with you leavingwt, I have alot of empathy for those still completely controlled by the Org and do not know it and those who are studying and coming in. I still go and everything but I'm skeptical and am not completely controlled. But I see new ones coming in and they aren't the wiser about what's really going on, they take everything in and believe it.

Personally I don't think there is a lot of information intentionally withheld from studies, just they always get baptized before they learn a lot of stuff that comes with being a jw for a while. If your born into it you know all the unwritten or common sense rules that are not necessarily found in the publications. But eventually the Noobs learn but sadly when its too late...

african GB Member

They dont tell you about the DF'ing policy!!

african GB member

diamondiiz

New ones only know the present history but have NO clue about the past and that's how WTS keeps moving forward. Once the past is revealed and one studies the leaders even Russell or Rutherford one becomes aware of the deception. If one is unbaptized one can have an easier way out, newly baprized will have and eassier way out, a loner like me will have an easier way out but anyone that likes association and groups and lots of friends and has their entire family involved in WTS will have a hell of a time getting out for fear of losing everything! And that is what WTS doesn't tell those studying with! After all those attending meetings for most part are ignorant of WTS facts thus ignorant and can't even prepare the unbaptized for what may occur to them if they look to deeply into WTS dealing.

jamiebowers

Hmm...not sure, but most people that get baptized only have a superficial understanding of the WTS dogma.

More importantly, what is not told to you before you get baptized is that you will have to submit to even the most unreasonable rules as a jw.

I wouldn't say these statements are necessarily true. Anybody who's sat through meetings for any length of time and has observed the congregation will pick up on all of this stuff, baptised or not. And quite a few of those baptised (like myself) were raised as JWs and had been hearing these doctrines over and over since birth and seeing how people are treated who don't follow the rules. As a teenager, I think I understood WTS dogma pretty well before I was baptised. And I distinguish between "understanding the WTS dogma" and "understanding what BS it is".

As far as what they tell you and don't tell you, they don't seperate the baptised from the unbaptised so they can teach them differently. Everything you learn is either spoken from the platform or read from books that everybody else reads. They don't pull you aside and give you more info once you're baptised.

There are some differences for different levels though. Elders will go to elder school and get the secret elder book. Pioneers will go to pioneer school and get some special instruction and a special notebook. But as far as your average baptised JW vs your unbaptised JW, it's all out in the open.

There's also the monthly Kingdom Ministry, which you only get if you're turning in time in field service. And there used to be a Theocratic Ministry School book if you joined that. Neither of which you have to be baptised to participate in. Or at least as a kid you didn't need to be.

I think there's also two versions of the watchtower now, one for door-to-door and one with study articles for the congregation. I don't know what the rules are on who gets that. But if you're in attendance when they study it, you hear everything.

Now the real heart of it is if you're a new one, they don't tell you everything. When you first answer that door, they don't tell you all of the ins and outs. But by the time most people get baptised, they seem to know how things work (in my experience anyway).

My experience was vastly different than your opinon. What I was taught was that ALL of Jehovah's people live by the Bible, and when they stubbornly refuse to do so, they are expelled. What I found to be true is that the only rule you really have to follow is showing submission to the WB&TS. If you're a jw who is willing to grovel to the elders for wrongdoing, you can get away with just about anything. That's why predators like child molesters and wife beaters do so well in the organization. When their victims rat them out, they confess and cry to the elders, therefore showing their repentence but return to their abusive ways. The governing body doesn't want the bad publicity of having such vile creatures in their organization, so it becomes the unforgivable sin when the victims refuse to live by their rules of "being a better child or wife" and "waiting on Jehovah", and keeping their mouths shut.

Mrs. Fiorini

"What I found to be true is that the only rule you really have to follow is showing submission to the WB&TS."

You hit the nail on the head. That's all they really care about. Everything else is just a way to measure it.

lurk3r

A few thoughts if i may boys. As new as i am here, I'm not new to the "truth".

Everyone here on this board for the most part is at different stages of "leaving" or certain point "past" leaving. There are no wrongs here really, just different perspectives. Bottom line is we all recognize the society for what it is now.

The bottom line is : One way or another, they want you "in". To get you in though, you have to subject yourself. As Sacolton brings out, the questions appear to be a test to see if you CAN be indoctrinated.They KNOW that once your "IN", you will become a dependant.Subjection then becomes PART OF YOUR LIFE! Was it not 3 years ago at the Distict Convention that they said "young ones, please, make a 3 year commitment and see for yourself".(I had a reliable JW friend tell me this). Once your in, numbers say you'll stay in. As LeavingWT brings out, noone joins...their recruited.Individually and by mass. (asssemblies)

Once your "in"and since you are indoctrinated in such a way, that subjection now is given to the Elders. One thing that is great about the truth with regards controlling is that that it is so obscure. Elders, use this to their individual benefit. Once someone comes in, the subject themselves to the Elders, and I think thats where the Society got really messed up. Different Elders, from different places, have differnt views, and different understandings...it's not a united religion.

From the new recruit, to the GB, it's all one big game of Master and Servant.

I think there's also two versions of the watchtower now, one for door-to-door and one with study articles for the congregation. I don't know what the rules are on who gets that. But if you're in attendance when they study it, you hear everything.

Im assuming that the two "versions" have the same printed material. One has questions the other doesn't. Since people are more aware of the "control" religions desire to have, the questions are left out for the average joe...there is no use in preparing them for what they are in store for. It's deceitful imo. How do the rank and file explain the two versions?

Thank you. Lurk3r

garybuss

I was raised by Witness parents. When I was 12, my mother informed me that my protection under family merit had expired and that god would murder me unless I went to a Jehovah's Witness convention and took a bath in public.

Peter Gregerson once said on a television program in Vancouver, B.C. that being raised a Jehovah's Witness was like being raised in an insane asylum with retarded parents. (Jim Penton May 14, 1996)

Are there things they DON'T tell you until AFTER you're baptized?

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