Question for Christians or other religious people who believe in evolution

by Amha·’aret 22 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  digderidoo

  Good question amhaaret.

  Paul
• 

  Narkissos

  Rightly or wrongly I perceive some difference between American (from the responses above, and a little "googling") and French Catholics on this issue. It seems to me that the majority of American Catholics are still taking the classical anthropology realistically, mostly debating where the traditional concept of "soul" can be fitted unchanged into the evolutionary pattern (John Haught might be an interesting exception), while French Catholic theologians are more inclined to rethink traditional anthropology thoroughly from the perspective of a completely different biological paradigm (in the line of Teilhard de Chardin, although few of them would now accept his globalistic and optimistic theory as it stands). Iow, it seems that the dichotomies underlying the classical concept of soul (spirit/mind vs. matter/body, human vs. animal) are still generally taken for granted on that side of the pond and no longer acceptable on this one. The official Church stance is ambiguous enough to allow for both attitudes of course.

  In any case, I feel that many European Christians are now heading to a less individual, less "speciocentrist," understanding of "soul" and "salvation" -- which, if it doesn't correspond literally to medieval metaphysics, has also a good background in Christian tradition. The ecclesiological and cosmical Christology of Ephesians (" to gather up all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth"), for instance, is more easily adaptable to modern bio-cosmology than the view of individual, monadic, human souls standing against a "soul-less" "material" world...
• 

  Robdar

  Jews believe life begins at birth, when the first breath is drawn. This is supposedly when the spirit enters the body also. I do not necessarily agree with the doctrine but am not opposed either. It's my opinion that nobody knows these things and cannot know and only speculate. Fortunately, the Jews will not excommunicate me for disagreeing.
• 

  Midget-Sasquatch

  What if the soul is more analogous, in its formation, to physical organisms than we might think? A merging of the human and divine elements at its conception, followed by steady development over time? Those who follow a path of spiritual awareness nurture that new entity in the womb of their minds and motivations. Then the death of the human body would be the birthing of the soul. Those who revel in more hedonistic lives wouldn't be pneumatics but purely hylic, and stillborn in that respect.
• 

  davegod

  In a situation such as this, I like to say remove the Bible. If you remove the Bible, there is no soul. No one has seen one, there is no proof of such. Without the Bible, we, plants and animals are on the same plane. It is only the audacity of man to assume that we are the higher being, thus deserving a special thing called a soul. What is so important about you , that it needs to live on? Really, what is so great about you?
• 

  Amha·’aret

  I think you've got a good point, Davegod. Any notion that we are better than the rest of those we share the planet with is just that - a notion/belief/high-minded idea.

  After all, if bacteria were all suddenly wiped out, every living thing on earth would be dead in a couple of hours. If humans were elimanated as a species, nothing else would even notice. So, how does God fit in with that?
• 

  Chalam

  Hi,

  First of all I want to say I do not believe in evolution. However, I do believe in the bible and that tells us about the soul and spirit, not science.

  So my question is at what point did the soul/spirit* evolve?

  The answer is here

  Genesis 2:7 (English Standard Version)

  7 then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

  However, we cannot know all the answers

  11:5 (English Standard Version)

  5 As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.

  Or do we have one? At what point did we seperate from being just another form of animals?

  1 Thessalonians 5:23 (English Standard Version)

  23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

  To me, I believe we are a trichotomy, three yet one Trichotomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  Many others believe the "soul" is the same as the "spirit" and that we are a dichotomy Dichotomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  My reasoning is this. Firstly, we are made in the image of God. Now God is three in one, Father, Son and Spirit.

  Matthew 28:19 (New International Version)

  19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

  Galatians 4:6 (New International Version)

  6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

  Corinthians 13:14 (New International Version)

  14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

  Also the word of God divides soul and spirit.

  Hebrews 4:12 (New International Version)

  12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

  That would make them two distinct things.

  Anyhow, the important thing is what you have mentioned here

  *What I mean by soul or spirit is the bit that has the chance of living on whether that be going to heaven or whatever.

  Yes the non physical part will either live in everlasting life

  Revelation 21:4 (New International Version)

  4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

  Or die an everlasting death

  Revelation 20:10 (New International Version)

  10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

  Revelation 20:14 (New International Version)

  14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

  Mark 9:47-48 (New International Version)

  47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
  " 'their worm does not die,
  and the fire is not quenched.'

  As they say, it is a no brainer.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  nicolaou

  A discussion about nothing, supported by nothing and going nowhere. Opinions floating freely, unencumbered by the need for evidence, flitting from one pointless pose to the next. Like fantastic shining towers, unsupported and without foundations, existing only in that gap between reality and madness. Welcome to religious delusion.

  "As they say, it is a no brainer."

  Well you've got that right at least!
• 

  Amha·’aret

  Dear Stephan,

  Please read the subject of the topic.

  As a general rule, I don't get into discussions with creationists. It's not worth the time!If someone can deny evolution in spite of the huge amount of evidence, then there's really no chance of having what I would consider a reasonable and intelligent discussion.
• 

  mkr32208

  God gave cavemen a soul when they finally stopped being chronic masturbators and striking their woman-folk with clubs.

  OH SHIT! I'VE GOT NO SOUL!!!