Hi Blondie.... It's been a long time. :) Still as confused as always......
Thanks for the responses. I want to read through them more carefully this evening after work.
My latest thoughts on God.
by desib77 29 Replies latest jw friends
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desib77
This just came to mind so I thought I woul mention it.
I was discussing this with a Catholic coworker at one point. He mentioned being blessed and I asked why he thought he was blessed when other people, just as deserving are not. He said he had not thought of that. ???? How can you Not think of that? Does he not watch the news?
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ziddina
Desib77, I'm so sorry to hear that your mother is ill. I sure hope she recovers - and soon!
As you stated, "First of all I just can't understand why a God of love would allow us to suffer, get sick and die." Uhm, I could never understand why a god of "love" could destroy almost everyone at Armageddon... Never mind everyday sicknesses...
Sicknesses?? So many sicknesses that were considered a 'curse' or 'judgment from god', such as cholera, diphtheria, leprosy, smallpox, bubonic plague, and so on, have become controllable in recent years due to SCIENTIFIC discoveries. [Some scientists believe the bacteria that caused waves of the bubonic plague to decimate Europe must have eventually mutated to a less virulent strain...]
To ask why a Middle Eastern male god who's only about 3,500 years old would allow this - ??? I'm going to repeat here what I've frequently posted elsewhere - and seems to have fallen on deaf ears so far - the god of the bible is only about 3,500 years old. Goddess worship is 20,000 years old - TEN TIMES older than Christianity. So-called 'animistic' worship - in many ways, similar to current sub-beliefs of the Hindu belief systems - is AT LEAST 40,000 years old and may be up to 100,000 years old.
If one postulates a 'deity' over this planet/the universe, which religious belief system is MOST likely to be the 'true' one?? The youngest, 'Johnny-come-lately' version?? Or the oldest one?? To my way of thinking, the OLDEST religion is most likely to be the 'true' one... To postulate that the 'youngest' or, more accurately, the 'next-to-youngest' version [Christianity] is the 'true' religion, strongly supports the evolution of religion, not a 'divine' origin for belief systems. And please don't EVEN get me started on the hubris of the human race who wants their deities to be blown-up versions of themselves!!
Recently, I was discussing that dread ailment, "Lockjaw" with a neighborhood child who was telling me about the time she stepped on a rusty nail. Before SCIENCE discovered a cure, that was a NASTY way to die! As well as rabies, gangrene... These - and other forms of miserable death - came about because humanity was not sufficiently advanced to find a cure. In addition, the pursuit of such cures was unfortunately hobbled because humanity, under a haze of religious beliefs, thought that some 'deity' would fix the problem if they just prayed enough. So much human energy has gone into specious, empty forms of worship that could have been put into working on solutions. If the human race had never had the 'heretic' burnings, never had the 'witch' burnings, never had the 'Inquisition' - how much more advanced as a species could we be today?? Cancer might be completely curable. Asthma might be cured in infancy with one shot, and so on...
My sort of viewpoint DOES reduce the idea of 'hope' - as in, 'maybe god will help me with - whatever - disease??' It also puts responsibility for one's health SQUARELY on the individual - no smoking, moderate drinking, what WTWizard said in another post about taking vitamins as a cheap form of health insurance, and so on. BUT - it also leaves one without a 'reasonable' explanation as to why some people, who take very good care of themselves, still get sick while others 'break' some or all of the 'rules' and still stay healthy. It also does not negate the fear of death...
I think that the 'chaotic' element of life is one reason there were/are so many Goddesses who 'ruled' or 'supported' chaos. Humans seek rational explanations, but sometimes there is no rational explanation. Primitive humans probably sought 'rational' explanations as to why one member of the tribe was eaten by a saber-tooth tiger whereas the dumb member of the tribe who was standing off by him/herself on a knoll was spared... But ultimately, those ancient humans understood one thing that we seem to have forgotten nowadays.
In spite of the chaos, one must go on with life, anyway.
Zid
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AllTimeJeff
desib77
Count me in as a doubter.....
When I left, I became an angry atheist... And yeah, I was pissed at the very idea of god....
One question that JW's always used to ask is, "If you were god (or had the power) what would be the first problem you would correct?" Believe me when I say that questions is still with me.
Yet, I think it important not to dismiss the quality of life benefits that some people of faith have. I also recognize many atheists and agnostics don't suffer the burdens that you have.
If you are telling yourself that something isn't right, that doesn't mean you are wrong, it means you should listen to yourself. It is interesting that the concept of doubt is considered a spiritual strength in some forms of Buddhism. Here is an interesting article that might give you some food for thought. It helped me deal with the noise of competing beliefs... (and believers....)
I am sorry for all the turmoil you have had to go through, and I wish you peace. :)
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BurnTheShips
It is interesting that the concept of doubt is considered a spiritual strength in some forms of Buddhism
Unamuno wrote that there can be no faith without doubt.
BTS
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BurnTheShips
ATJ, Dude. That is a great link. It explains a great deal. Bookmark worthy! This part caught my eye while I scanned it.
Perhaps, predictably, there exists a sense of threat among people in the different stages of religious development. Mostly we are threatened by people in the stages above us. Although they often adopt the pretense of being "cool cats" who have it "all together," underneath their exteriors Stage I people are threatened by just about everything and everyone. Stage II people are not threatened by Stage I people, the "sinners." They are commanded to love sinners, but they are very threatened by the individualists and skeptics of Stage III, and even more by the mystics of Stage IV, who seem to believe in the same sorts of things they do but believe in them with a freedom they find absolutely terrifying. Stage III people, on the other hand, are neither threatened by Stage I people nor by Stage II people (whom they simply regard as superstitious), but are cowed by Stage IV people, who seem to be scientific minded like themselves and know how to write good footnotes, yet somehow still believe in this crazy God business.
It seems to me that the Dubs are a Stage II org. Many of us, upon leaving, become Stage III immediately afterwards, or remain Stage II under a different name. It breaks it down so well, this should get its own thread.
BTS
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AllTimeJeff
BTS
I think that is a very compelling article, just for the general structure it can offer in how one views people upon a post JW life. It was shared with me some time ago, and I appreciated it....
I have gotten involved in passionate debates regarding Christian theism in particular. My beef is only with the pure dogmatism associated with some people's beliefs. Yet, I don't generally begrudge a person their faith these days....
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Perry
dseib77,
Those are a lot of very good questions. I've answered them for myself satisfactorily. It took a lot of hard work though.
May God bless you in your search for answers.
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desib77
Thomas15,
I wish it were that simple for me. I wish I could just have "faith" and believe. Trust me, I have tried with all of my heart to come to terms with Christianity. I have asked for Him to show me the "truth" and yet I still have questions and doubts. Why would I be expected to just believe when I have the mental ability to question? I just don't understand. If I don't then I will not be "saved"?
I understand what a great gift the sacrifice of a human life is whether it is His own or His son's. But, even allowing it to get to that point knowing what pain inperfection would cause doesn't make sense to me.
I genuinely wish this were simpler for me to accept.
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desib77
Jaguar,
Thanks, I will look into those books.