My latest thoughts on God.

by desib77 29 Replies latest jw friends

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  desib77

  Ziddina,

  I guess you are going to have to simplify your religon timelines for me. Where do those years come from? This is going to sound silly and please excuse my ignorance but I thought the beginning of man came with the beginning of the God of the Bible. ????

  I guess I'm not really wondering why some people get sick while others don't. I have pretty much decided that if there is a God, he does not directly cause the illnesses but indirectly does by allowing imperfection to come into existance with the human race.

  Thank you for the thought that you put into your response.

  Desi
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  desib77

  Something else I was thinking about on my way to work this morning. Every time something good happens someone will say "That was a blessing from God" but if something bad happens then God has His purpose.

  Does this bother anyone else?
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  Big Tex

  Desi, I'm very sorry about your mother. My wife's mother and uncle both wasted away from Alzheimer's, so please know how much I empathize. It's horrible watching it happen and being powerless to help.

  Your thread hits home with me, as the past few months I've found myself awake at 2 or 3 in the morning thinking, worrying, praying about the very things you bring up.

  I myself am stuck on the question of why bad things happen to good people. IF there is a god, why do so very many truly evil things happen to innocents? Why does god allow children to be hideously beaten, raped or murdered? I'm really stuck on this. I remember one therapist told me when children first learn of the concept of God, they often will think of God as a Santa Claus-like figure and pray for a toy or a treat. When that prayer isn't answered, the child might be disappointed, but sort of figures out that's not how it works.

  Yet when a child of abuse makes that first prayer, there is only one thing they ask of God. And when that prayer isn't answered, and the abuse continues, that child experiences a side of God that is cold and unfeeling.

  Events in this life seemingly unfold in such a way that human happiness is not a consideration. In this life, some people seem to have so many bad things happen to them again and again, while others, seemingly, have many good things happen again and again. I guess what I'm stuck on, regarding the concept of God, is why is life not just unfair, but SO unfair, so harsh, so cruel?

  If I'm completely honest with myself I have maintained this belief because every one else does and it is such a taboo thing to not have "faith".

  Actually I've kind of envied people who claim to have faith. I never really have. I don't know if you're like this Desi, but I've tried very hard to feel what others claim they feel. I don't feel it. I didn't when I was a hard core JW, and I don't now.

  • On the opposite side, there is one thing that I have trouble reconciling in my mind without a God. Life. It is such a miraculous thing I just can't see it just happening.

  This is me as well. Having said that, however, I've felt for some time that atheism is more comforting, at least to me, in that when I die I don't have to worry about being judged by an unfair god who plays favorites.

  Desi, I think that you will eventually get your answers. I know I've been told to find a quiet place, try to quiet my mind and ask questions.

  I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning, with skepticism or with being angry at God. But then maybe my opinion doesn't count since god doesn't think too much of me.

  Chris
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  OnTheWayOut

  Okay, lately I have been considering the possibilty that there isn't an almighty God. Just typing that brings up feelings of guilt that only an Ex JW could understand.

  I have embraced the fact that God has not revealed himself clearly to people, so that possibility is closer to reality. I say that and only say that I have not felt guilt for a long time over such doubt.

  Why would any god that loves his creation allow them to go through something like that.

  I tend to agree. So that removes either his love or his ability to do something about it. Regardless of the arguments about what God has or will do, I reject the love of a God that lets innocent children suffer at the hands of priests, elders, preachers, pioneers, etc. that claim to serve HIM. Such a God could smite the criminals that use His name or protect the children in some way. I have similar feelings for allowing birth defects and suffering of innocents from war, disease, disaster, etc.

  "In the beginning"

  I reject the idea that the very human writers of this were making the point that Man has failed in obedience to a loving God.
  I think the original intent of the Eden story was that we better obey God or He will get mad and cause all kinds of problems for us.
  If their intent was similar to what Christianity teaches, then Adam and Eve were created with a desire to know Good and Evil, so they were ill-equiped for such a test. The failure would be that of God. That would make Creation and the Flood and bringing the Law to the Israelites into a story of a God-of-trial-and-error tweaking His creation until He is satisfied with the outcome, then still bringing Jesus when it wasn't working out so well with a complicated law code.
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  desib77

  AllTimeJeff,

  Wow, that is a lot to digest. So much of that hit me as true. I can see myself leaving Stage II and entering Stage III but fearfully, sometimes returning to the old feelings / beliefs of Stage II.

  I kind of wonder if JW children don't skip Stage I. Sitting with their parents from birth at the meetings they have the JW mentality crammed into their heads brainwashing them.

  A lot to think about. Thank you for that link.

  Desi
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  desib77

  Chris,

  Thank you for that response. It has been a while. I hope you and Nina are both doing well.

  I appreciate knowing that someone else wonders about this and doesn't just dismiss the questions.

  As for those with faith, yes I envy those that I feel have true and undeniable faith. There aren't many that I feel are genuine but those that are have a comfort that I will most likely never know.

  Desi
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  desib77

  OTWO,

  I hadn't ever considered not having "the ability to do something about it." That is something to think about.

  You have certainly summed up my feelings about a God that allows those awful things. If he destroyed the "wicked" at the flood why could he have not just destroyed the "wicked" Adam and Eve and started fresh if he so desired. Doesn't make sense.

  Wow, I have a headache now.... hehe, probably just work but I'm sure contemplating the existence of an almight God doesn't help a work related headache..... :)

  Desi
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  ziddina

  Desib77, pick up any solid, well-researched book on archaeology and it will tell you that the religion(s) in the bible are some of the youngest religions on the face of the planet.

  Here is a good website that discusses some forms of Goddess worship in practice in Rome, as well as the probable PAGAN origins of the 'Jesus' myth [brace yourself; it is highly probable that 'Jesus' never actually existed]: http://www.usu.edu/markdamen/1320Hist&Civ/chapters/12CULTS.htm

  Now, if you want to talk about a religious system that is/was over 6,000 years old, here is a very good website discussing the ages of the Egyptian cultures - dating (one of the earlier 'civilizations') from approx. 5,500 B.C. - which would make it around 7,500 years old...: http://www.robertschoch.net/Ancient%20Egyptian%20Timeline%20Upper%20Lower%20Egypt%20Colette%20Dowell%20CT.htm

  This website discusses the possible ages of the Aboriginal religious systems - it places it around 40,000 to 60,000 years old as measured by the length of time the Aborigines have inhabited Australia - and, incidentally, also gives a date of 1700 B.C. for the beginnings of the bible - which would make the age of the bible 3,700 years old - still very much an 'infant' when compared to the much older religions around the world...: http://www.aboriginalculture.com.au/religion.shtml

  Check out ANY book on Egyptian and Grecian mythology. BOTH of those religious belief systems were MUCH OLDER than Christianity, and both incorporate extensive Goddess worship. They also had extensive influence on the Middle Eastern nomads who wrote the bible...

  This book, “The Myth of the Goddess – Evolution of an Image” by Anne Baring and Jules Cashford. Copyright 1993 by Penguin Books Ltd. is one that states the age of Goddess worship to be 20,000 years based on SOLID ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE. (Also, check out “The Great Goddess” by Jean Markale.)

  In contrast, the actual age of the bible can only be traced back to one small fragment of writing that can be proven to be a part of the Hebrew scriptures; that piece is only 3,300 years old.

  Check out any book by Joseph Campbell. Regarding my statement as to the older forms of religion, check out: "Voices of the First Day - Awakening the Aboriginal Dreamtime" by Robert Lawlor or "The Way of the Animal Powers" by Joseph Campbell.

  Trust me, once you begin to delve into this information, your eyes will be SO opened!! Zid
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  desib77

  Thanks! I will look over those this evening or tomorrow. :)
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  desib77

  I don't know if it is okay to "bump" but I'm "bumping" this thread. I'm sure there are several other thoughts on this matter.