If your family member was in prison due to a corrupt government, would you lie to get them out?

by BonaFide 24 Replies latest jw friends

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  BonaFide

  I know weird scenario. But would you lie to help someone? For example, would you bribe a guard to let him out? Isn't that lying? Or sneak him a tool to get his way out? Or give a fake document asking for his release?

  When I visit Mexico, I bribe the local police to let us through roadblocks. $5. All the Witnesses, well almost all do it when they visit there, its standard practice there to bribe the police.

  Would you do it?

  Of course I say this because some are saying that they wouldn't live a lie, they wouldn't pretend to be a Witness to help someone get out.

  Does that mean you NEVER lie? Don't you think that the circumstances merit it sometimes? I see so many on here that have family that reject them because they are inactive or out of the Organization somehow. Why not go back in, to help them get out? You might spend less time per week than you spend on this site, I know I spend more time on here each week than my Witness stuff.

  My brother has been out of the Organization for 20 years. He is very happy. But when I was a believer, I didn't accept that. I believed he wasnt really happy. Some of you have said that the best way to show Witnesses is to live your life. I didn't see that in my family and friends. They think everyone not a Witness is unhappy no matter what. So I feel its better to stay in and lie to help them get out. I feel that lying is the right thing to do, because they are in a cult.

  Unless that is from my Witness background, using "Theocratic strategy."

  So, would you lie in certain circumstances? Is it dishonest to pretend to be a Witness to slowly help someone get out? Its 10 hours a week of faking it. Worth it? Dishonest? Or am I continually harping on the same subject and you guys are sick of it?

  Hit me people.

  BF
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  aSphereisnotaCircle

  You bet I would!
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  Marjorie

  BF, if it works for you, great. But I would never do it.

  I am sure that I tested my husband's patience prattling on about whatever dreck the WTS pushed forward. And he did have "a Bible study" . But ultimately, he decided that it wasn't for him.

  Whenever we spoke about the Society's practices, he asked me straight, honest questions. Are the JW's a cult, he would ask. I would answer no, of course, but the fact that he thought so would disturb me, and it made me question why anyone would think so. Aren't we supposed to eat the emblems, he would ask during the Memorial. And his question got me to thinking about just how scriptural the WTS really is. I'm glad that he took that approach. I was already being lied to; I did not need any more lies and head games in my life.

  I believe that this is a fight that must be fought honestly. If I cannot convince with honesty and truthfulness, then I must resign myself with great sadness to the words of 1Timothy 4:1: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."
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  AlexHall

  Well, it is dishonest, but desperate times calles for desperate measueres. In a perfect world my family would listen to the info I had in an nonjudgemental way and then decide what they wanna belive. But I know that this will never happen, instead they shun me and regard everything I say as apostate material.

  But I also have to respect their choises. I can´t force them to do anything they don´t wanna do. They have to live their life, no mather what I belive in. Freedom of religion. I have no problem with my family beeing Witnesses if that makes them happy. I only wish that I could change their wievpoint on shunning and accepting me and my freedom of religion.

  If i was 100% sure that everything with the witnesses was evil and wrong I would lie to help them get out, but I prefeer if that change can come from me beeing honest and true to my choises
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  Johnnytwofeet

  I don't owe my family anything. I certainly don't owe them a rescue from a life they have chosen for themselves. Is your 007 work something that you are doing for them? Or is it something you are doing for yourself?

  I would never lie in any way to rescue my family from their JW life. I could never live with myself.
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  BonaFide

  Johnnytwofeet, it's not that I feel like I OWE my family anything. I don't believe they have chosen this life for themselves. I believe they were tricked into it by the methods that cults use to trap people, even intelligent people. Some of my family was born-in, and others were vulnerable at the time when Witnesses visited.

  I am curious as to who on here would lie, and for what reasons. If you wouldn't lie to rescue your family or friends from being a Witness, then what about something else, would you ever lie for any other reason?

  BF
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  Johnnytwofeet

  Everyone chooses the life they're living. I don't buy the brainwashing angle. Most witnesses are still witnesses because they do not CHOOSE to suffer the consequences of leaving. THe rest are stupid.
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  BonaFide

  Johnnytwofeet, the books by Steve Hassan about cults are excellent. Releasing the Bonds, and Combatting Cult Mind Control. Many on here recommend them and I am now reading them also. He writes, as most experts on cults say, that intelligent people can be sucked in to a cult.

  Why they stay in a cult is also commented on.

  BF
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  Johnnytwofeet

  Bonafide. Which group are you using your techniques on? The witnesses or us?

  :)
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  PrimateDave

  Telling lies to the government, even if it is corrupt, is a really bad idea. It would make better sense to follow all possible legal channels to free a wrongly imprisoned person. Doing otherwise could land you in prison too.

  That is a poor analogy anyway. Unlike most prisoners, especially those who may be innocent of their convictions, it appears as though the majority of Witnesses like their mental "prison." At least they certainly don't see it as such. Each person holds the key to his own mental freedom.

  By staying in the organization, are you really and truly showing others the "way out"? I don't think so. You need to get out yourself. Your nominal participation won't get others to quit. Your subtle (or not) questioning of the WTS will eventually make you the object of a JC for apostasy. At the very least they will mark you and shun you from within.

  What makes you think you are personally responsible for "freeing" others? Anyone with an internet connection is a few clicks from all the damning information they need to make their own choice. The biggest thing you could do to help others would be to Quit. Right. Now. The more people leave, the more those left lose the social network that keeps them tied to the WTS.

  Dave