by BonaFide 24 Replies latest jw friends
Everyone chooses the life they're living. I don't buy the brainwashing angle. Most witnesses are still witnesses because they do not CHOOSE to suffer the consequences of leaving. THe rest are stupid.
I disagree with you one hundred percent.
'Brainwashing' is a poor description. "Thought Reform" is more accurate.
Most JWs are victims of destructive Thought Reform that has robbed them of their ability to think for themselves.
Everyone chooses the life they're living. I don't buy the brainwashing angle. Most witnesses are still witnesses because they do not CHOOSE to suffer the consequences of leaving. THe rest are stupid.
Child please! I didn't "choose" to be born into this cult of hogwash. The only time I got to choose anything was when I woke up from their mindthink at 33/34. By that time I had already pretty well f*ucked myself out of a decent life. I spent over half my life believing in their lies and control, fear of Armageddon which is really fear of the GB because it seems they get to choose who survives based on meeting attendence and service hours. Now you want to call us "stupid". Go look in the mirror, moron.
Did you choose it? Or were you born into it and that's all you know? If you chose it, then deal with the consequences. I didn't have choice about anything until I turned 18.
I disagree as well. I have lived in foreign countries, you might be surprised that even the Branch does some "negotiating" to get the literature into the country. That's just the way things work in those countries. And how many of us can say we are 100% honest in EVERYTHING anyway?
I think the analogy fits because Witnesses, especially those born-in, don't have a choice. The same as children born into an extremist Muslim family, why do they think like that? Their parents raised them that way.
And Witnesses are taught that to be a good person, avoid evil. That includes evil apostate websites. It is an act of disobedience to the Organization to come on here.
If I had seen others leave the Organization and their family took their example and left also, I would definitely follow their example. But what I read on this forum is that those who have left are being shunned by brainwashed family. Coming straight out and telling your family and friends doesnt seem to work with a brainwashed person.
Thus the "theocratic warfare"
And thanks to the person who sent me the link to the brother who helped his family out little by little, I got some good tips from him.
BF
Learn to read. I didn't say that you chose to be a witness. I said you choose the life you're living. I was born into this cult as well, and I chose to leave. Anyone can choose to leave. Not everyone chooses to suffer the consequences of that action. Those that realize the truth of this cult choose to either stay or go. Period. Those that cannot filter through the bs are stupid. Period.
Learn to read. I didn't say that you chose to be a witness. I said you choose the life you're living. I was born into this cult as well, and I chose to leave. Anyone can choose to leave. Not everyone chooses to suffer the consequences of that action. Those that realize the truth of this cult choose to either stay or go. Period. Those that cannot filter through the bs are stupid. Period.
We're reading you just fine.
We disagree totally.
You disagree with the aspect of Mind Control/Thought Reform.
We've seen the Mind Control. We've lived it. Our experiences perfectly match the research that Robert J. Lifton, Steve Hassan and others have done.
People don't join cults, they're recruited into them. They are not "stupid" if they cannot filter through the bs. They are victims.
It's a humbling and painful thing to admit to yourself that you were misled and controlled.
The WT experience aligns with the eight criteria as set out by Dr. Lifton. The link I gave above gives examples of how each of these criteria are present to the JW.
Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.
Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.
Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.
Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.
Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also. (Lifton, 1989)
Our buddy "Gumby" went back so he could be with his family..........I don`t think it`s working out like he planned.................................OUTLAW
Sorry leavingwt. I just don't buy into the fairytale world of mind control that ex witnesses have built up to avoid the painful truth that we were retards for the time that we were in the religion. I know it's difficult to say it but once you do you will feela great weight come off your shoulders. Say it with me.
"I was stupid for believing the things I did. I can blame no one but myself for staying in the religion when I knew it was a crock of shison. It was my fault. I will not blame mystical mind control demons."
Repeat 3 times and call me in the morning ( i may or may not pick up)
Sorry leavingwt. I just don't buy into the fairytale world of mind control that ex witnesses have built up to avoid the painful truth that we were retards for the time that we were in the religion. I know it's difficult to say it but once you do you will feela great weight come off your shoulders. Say it with me.
"I was stupid for believing the things I did. I can blame no one but myself for staying in the religion when I knew it was a crock of shison. It was my fault. I will not blame mystical mind control demons."
I've seen nothing that would indicate that Mind Control is a fairy tale.
I can respect your opinion, while disagreeing with you.
I've seen nothing to indicate mind control is real either.
