What code of conduct do "atheists" live by? (page 3)

leavingwt

incarcerated individuals

You rarely ever find an atheist among this group. But, that's off-topic.

The Berean

leavingwt:

Watched your clip Would the same apply, if let us say, the US Government disappeared?

AllTimeJeff

Just a further thought before I go back to work... (work... yuck...)

This gets back to a very typical "cause and effect" argument, that there must be an attributable cause for everything, including "proper" behavior.

The effect is clear, we know it is more productive and healthy to be honest, work hard, and to not harm. The opposites of these or other ethical premises clearly show the value. To lie, be lazy, and hurt others creats chaos and anarchy. Thus, society (not "god") has rules enforced by government for the greater good.

Where theists and atheists differ is the attributable "unseen" cause of why humans do better and are happier when some moral or ethical codes is followed.

Theists generally insist that they know (have faith, whatever) the cause of good morals, it is the god that is associated with their own personal dogma.

Atheists do not necesarrily attribute the effects of good behavior, ethics, or morality to any personality. They do not rule out a cause, but in the lack of clear evidence, why should they, or anyone, have morals they do not believe in enforced on them when the evidence is lacking?

Atheists have generally the same morals as theists. I actually think, the older I get, that this is a misnomer.

AllTimeJeff

Berean

Not a problem, I figured I would find out eventually where you were going with this....

The issue I have is that I believe where we exist on this planet dictates the definition of "conscience." Killing, stealing, and even what we could call pedophilia are legal and commonplace in some cultures. So, if you or I move to Asia, Africa, Scandinavia, or the Middle East might our core values change?

Absolutely correct! And it is not lost on me that there are different theistic traditions associated in these parts of the world. It actually creates more confusion for a theistic arugment due to the fact that their is no one accepted deity that the world agrees on. Far from it! And that is why intellectually, it is difficult for me to attribute morals and ethics to theism. (and also why the title of your thread, singling out atheists, was intriguing to me)

Additionally, millions of incarcerated individuals around the globe are temporarily restrained from commiting vile acts against their particular society which suggests to me that my "fear of punishment" concept is recognized by governments ...

Your fear of punisment concept is very compelling. I think it real. However, there is a difference in who mets out the punishment. Governments are real, so are their laws. Theists insist their god is real, and so is their gods punishment. So far, no one on this planet can prove that their god's punishment is the real one to be feared. It is all cultural, and with all respect, very anchored in superstition.

leavingwt

At the heart of much of this, IMHO, is the Use of Force and Consent (which something that only an adult can give).

Often, if the Use of Force enters the picture, something is wrong. Period.

This has nothing to do with any particular holy book.

"As Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said, 'The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins.' Rights must apply to everyone in the same sense at the same time. So rights must therefore be limited to claims of freedom to do anything which does not violate the freedoms of others. This requires recognizing, respecting and abiding by anyone else's wishes to be left alone whenever he wants, and his wishes to be free to do anything which doesn't violate others. This is why no one can claim a 'right' to interfere with your life in any way without your explicit, personally-given consent for a specified purpose. There can be no such thing as a 'right' for anyone (or any group) to mess with you whenever he wants (or whenever they want) since it obviously isn't applying to YOU in the same sense at the same time.

The Berean

Sorry Jeff, I guess I was kind of being a "back door guy" (Only in that instance!)

beksbks

I can't think of a single country where killing and stealing are considered ok. Marrying off girls at a very young age is a pretty old practice. The bible and the like are full of that sort of thing. Women are the last in line in this world to achieve real human rights and respect. That holds true right here in America, there's still a long way to go. Now if you mean a corrupt group of individuals have taken over power in some countries, and are wreaking havoc, killing and stealing.............................Well, you may want to think about what America has perpetrated on the world in the last 100 years. Frankly, countries with religious rule are the worst. Because they are emboldened to have god on thier side. They see the horror they dish out as gods will, or thier right as gods people. Take a look at Scandinavian countries. They have the highest standard of living, the best record on human rights, social programs, happiness, and lowest number of believers in god.

Troubled Mind's Grandfather in law had it right. Self respect, a conscience, are a good start for a code. Personally, I think empathy is at the pinnacle.

AllTimeJeff

To clarify one statement I made:

Atheists have generally the same morals as theists. I actually think, the older I get, that this is a misnomer.

I meant to say that "it is a misnomer to imply or state that atheists do not have the same morals generally as theists do". Sorry, I probably shouldn't visit this board at work...

drwtsn32

Killing, stealing, and even what we could call pedophilia are legal and commonplace in some cultures.

Where is killing and stealing flat out allowed under any circumstance? I understand that different cultures and societies have different "conditions" where such an act may be justified.

So, if you or I move to Asia, Africa, Scandinavia, or the Middle East might our core values change

So your core values are an exact mirror of the law of the land? Personally I think our personal moral code is a combination of our society/culture and our own personal values.

I may personally view something as wrong even though it is legal.

drwtsn32

millions of incarcerated individuals around the globe are temporarily restrained from commiting vile acts against their particular society which suggests to me that my "fear of punishment" concept is recognized by governments ...

Absolutely. They are answering to society for their actions that society has deemed unacceptable.

Humanity will never agree 100% on a single, universal "moral code." That's why I say such a thing does not and has never existed.

What code of conduct do "atheists" live by?

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