The Value of Pi, The Mysteries of Pi and e and the Bible.

by Chalam 55 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  HintOfLime

  What is important to me is that I believe in the Creator, not coincidence.
  - Chalem

  So of the ~400 million sperm competing for your mother's egg.. you believe that God hand picked the exact sperm that bore you?

  If not, you're life is already an outstanding coincidence. Of course, obviously there was a good chance one of those sperm would win.. but that you are here is still statistically very unlikely.

  Like a mothers womb, all the molecules and materials for life are all right here in the universe. With a universe full of all sorts of materials bouncing off of eachother for 13.5 billion years, while life as we know it is likely a coincidence, life itself may just be bound to happen many different ways. In that case, life isn't a coincidence. Of course, its difficult to say with a sample size of 1.

  - Lime
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  VM44

  How would the ancient Hebrews even computer 111/106 ?

  I think the numerology attempting to show 3*(111/106) is in the Bible is bogus, akin to what the Pyamidiots attempt to do with the Great pyramid measurements.
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  Chalam

  Hi Lime,

  So of the ~400 million sperm competing for your mother's egg.. you believe that God hand picked the exact sperm that bore you?

  I agree with David's poetic words, I do not believe I am a product of infinite randomness or order from disorder.

  Psalm 139:13-18 (New International Version)

  13 For you created my inmost being;
  you knit me together in my mother's womb.

  14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
  your works are wonderful,
  I know that full well.

  15 My frame was not hidden from you
  when I was made in the secret place.
  When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

  16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
  All the days ordained for me
  were written in your book
  before one of them came to be.

  17 How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
  How vast is the sum of them!

  18 Were I to count them,
  they would outnumber the grains of sand.
  When I awake,
  I am still with you.

  If not, you're life is already an outstanding coincidence. Of course, obviously there was a good chance one of those sperm would win.. but that you are here is still statistically very unlikely.

  Like a mothers womb, all the molecules and materials for life are all right here in the universe. With a universe full of all sorts of materials bouncing off of eachother for 13.5 billion years, while life as we know it is likely a coincidence, life itself may just be bound to happen many different ways. In that case, life isn't a coincidence. Of course, its difficult to say with a sample size of 1.

  If we go this route of reasoning, where did this universe come from?

  IMHO science can keep "answering" questions but quite often it changes its mind or disagrees with itself and it never seems to answer the big questions.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  Chalam

  Hi VM44,

  How would the ancient Hebrews even computer 111/106 ?

  I think the numerology attempting to show 3*(111/106) is in the Bible is bogus, akin to what the Pyamidiots attempt to do with the Great pyramid measurements.

  With the greatest respect, I think the point is that God knows the value of Pi and He authored the bible, men just did the writing. The calculating came later when we invented the calculator!

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  bohm

  IMHO science can keep "answering" questions but quite often it changes its mind or disagrees with itself and it never seems to answer the big questions

  I think its quite interesting to read that statement on a computerscreen and think of how many centuries of science went into making THAT possible. If Big G wanted us to believe in the bible, why put in subtle clues that required all kinds of dodgy nonsense manipulations? Why not just write: The first 8 digits of the one millionth prime is: ...., and that would prove it once and for all.

  No, God prefers to have a gazillion very special people make a gazillion different very special excuses for why God want it such that everything in the bible makes it LOOK like it is just another false religion, but he wants us to believe it anyway OR ELSE....

  Regards!
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  HintOfLime

  If we go this route of reasoning, where did this universe come from?

  Where did God come from? If God can 'just exist', so can the universe. (Of course, the universe is simpler than God, and we KNOW it exists.)

  IMHO science can keep "answering" questions but quite often it changes its mind or disagrees with itself and it never seems to answer the big questions.

  How do you learn? Do you learn calculus and then worry about mastering arithmatic? No. You tart small and build your way up. In science we learn by answering little questions, and building our way up. But we ARE answering questions, and we're making sure we get the right answers.

  Faith on the other hand does the opposite. It tries to answer the big questions.. but then it doesn't know how to answer the little questions (or answers those wrong). If it can't answer simple questions correctly, why should I assume it got the big questions right?

  - Lime
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  villabolo

  Chalam, Einstein was a Pantheist who personally stated that he did not believe in anthropomorphic gods, nor gods who interested themselves in human interests. He stated that his "god" was the god of Spinoza a well known pantheist.
• 

  HintOfLime

  I think its quite interesting to read that statement on a computerscreen and think of how many centuries of science went into making THAT possible. If Big G wanted us to believe in the bible, why put in subtle clues that required all kinds of dodgy nonsense manipulations? Why not just write: The first 8 digits of the one millionth prime is: ...., and that would prove it once and for all.

  Obviously, such a thing wouldn't have value until computers were invented.. but it wouldn't take more than a few sets of numbers like you suggest to provide evidence for each technological era (which God should know, right?)

  And that's a 'dumb' test humans can think up in a few minutes. If God wanted there to be no doubt he existed and had a purpose for us.. he would leave no room for doubt. My only conclusion is that if there is a God, he wants us to doubt. He would know perfectly well that the fossil record, archeological record, and DNA (moreless all verifiable evidence) would lead us to conclusions quite different from the biblical story of creation.

  - Lime
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  Chalam

  Hi Lime,

  Thanks for your points raised.

  I am happier with the belief of a Creator "just existing" rather than creation existing without a Creator.

  With regards to science, I am all for it, God is the original scientist! However, IMHO our own scientific "answers" seem to bring more questions than they answer. If our science could answer every question then it would indeed be God, but I don't perceive that it will happen.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  HintOfLime

  However, IMHO our own scientific "answers" seem to bring more questions than they answer. If our science could answer every question then it would indeed be God, but I don't perceive that it will happen.

  The same could be said of the bible, of course, except that the bible doesn't change, so the questions it raised never get any answers.

  I guess it's a matter of disposition. If you're like the 5 year old kid that asks a quesiton "Why?" and immediately follows that up with another question 'Why?' question.. and then another and another forever, then science rules. No human mind can comprehend all the complexities of the universe.

  If you're a 5 year old who asks a "Why?" question, gets an answer, and doesn't feel like asking any more quesitons.. then I guess science sucks.

  I personally think we should keep asking questions. At least as a civilization. I guess if it's too much information, or too complex for some people (not to belittle.. I don't ask a lot of quantum mechanics questions personally.. way too complex), that's fine. Some people just need a simple model of the universe to stick in there head.. something they don't have to keep updating to the latest version. Parents that are interested in their kids, businessmen and women who need to concentrate on their careers, etc.

  I think as a civilization though, we have to keep asking the 'why' questions. Sometimes we learn amazing things, and the whole of civilization grows because of it.

  - Lime