To Fade or Not To Fade... An Opinion.....

by AllTimeJeff 57 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  willyloman

  Lots of insight, thought-provoking ideas here including this very important point by joanna:

  I think everyone has to make their own paths. There is no right way to leave, you can't write a guidebook for this.

  As for me, I consider myself a "fader" because I didn't write a letter or invite any official congo action for some or most of the reasons others have already posted.

  Once we saw the light, we carefully planned our exit strategy based on the "fade" model. We moved to another congregation in the same circuit. Later I resigned as an elder citing health problems as much more serious than they were. We used that to start missing meetings and FS often. Then we stopped going altogether. A month later an elder called to get our FS time. I gave him some bogus numbers and told him we were moving over to another congo physically closer to our home. He volunteered to send our cards over, which f*&%ed up the line of responsibility in terms of which elders were responsible for following up with us.

  At that point, we reevaluated our plan, which was to go sporadically to the new congo and then just stop. We decided it would be better strategy to just not show up at the new KH. By then we had had some talks about our doubts with family and knew we wouldn't be shunned for walking away.

  Today, none of our family is in the organization. They lost six publishers, four former pioneers, and one elder. I have no idea what the former "friends" think of us, since virtually none of them have bothered to inquire about us (at least to our face). I occasionally run into dubs at work or in a store and they generally walk across the way to avoid contact or they make superficial small talk and scurry off. I enjoy the consternation we've apparently caused them. It puts them on the defensive and makes it less awkward for us.

  I suppose some day we'll be seen coming out of a church or celebrating Christmas or a birthday, but we just don't care. If someone showed up at our door or called to announce a JC meeting, we'd just laugh and tell them they have no authority over us. Meanwhile, we are not about to recognize that authority in any way, and that includes writing them a letter as though we still thought of ourselves as members.

  We have old all our workmates that we are no longer JWs. We've made new friends and developed new interests. We consider ourselves on a never-ending spiritual journey. And we love our new freedom. It is so liberating to be totally uninvolved with the dubs.
• 

  treadnh2o

  The only reason I chose fade over DA is my wife asked me to take that route.

  I stopped altogether in Jan. and have not been back since except for the memorial.

  I will smoke cigars in public if only for the reason I would love to be Df'd. Then it's not my decision. But I would not meet w/ a JC. Because I do not view them as an authority on any level.

  Great thread, although I believe we will be seeing the pace of those leaving rapidly increase when people get tired of wasting their lives.
• 

  zarco

  Narkissos’ point that “you can build self-value on approval from a group ( JWs , exJWs too... or other) -- or from the very opposite, by standing out or against a given group. In both cases you are still using the group” is where we endeavor to be in our actions and thinking.

  However, once one is a Witness it is almost like being a citizen of a country. One cannot easily renounce one’s citizenship because of differences in beliefs or disagreement with the actions of a country. One could and likely would engage in a debate to express such disagreement.

  It is insidious that we cannot engage in a healthy debate and express disappointment in or opposition to Watchtower positions. That path leads to losing one’s citizenship. It is sad to me that the only real choices are a stand against or a fade. The choice to “not use the group” is to me an end point of the two decisions.

  For the record, we choose to fade. I resigned my position. I could, not in good conscience, conduct the bookstudy any longer. I still cannot believe that I could conduct the study in the Revelation book with a straight face. The last talk I was assigned was a special needs talk on education. I could not do it.

  Fortunately, for years my family and I have always discussed how many of the Watchtower teachings are flawed. We were in the wait and see camp. Even before I resigned my family just went through the motions. We are now on active fade because of “health reasons” and “discouragement”. Interestingly, we may be the healthiest and most encouraged we have ever been.

  We will get to the point where the group has no influence on us… just not quite there yet.
• 

  zarco

  Narkissos’ point that “you can build self-value on approval from a group ( JWs , exJWs too... or other) -- or from the very opposite, by standing out or against a given group. In both cases you are still using the group” is where we endeavor to be in our actions and thinking.

  However, once one is a Witness it is almost like being a citizen of a country. One cannot easily renounce one’s citizenship because of differences in beliefs or disagreement with the actions of a country. One could and likely would engage in a debate to express such disagreement.

  It is insidious that we cannot engage in a healthy debate and express disappointment in or opposition to Watchtower positions. That path leads to losing one’s citizenship. It is sad to me that the only real choices are a stand against or a fade. The choice to “not use the group” is to me an end point of the two decisions.

  For the record, we choose to fade. I resigned my position. I could, not in good conscience, conduct the bookstudy any longer. I still cannot believe that I could conduct the study in the Revelation book with a straight face. The last talk I was assigned was a special needs talk on education. I could not do it.

  Fortunately, for years my family and I have always discussed how many of the Watchtower teachings are flawed. We were in the wait and see camp. Even before I resigned my family just went through the motions. We are now on active fade because of “health reasons” and “discouragement”. Interestingly, we may be the healthiest and most encouraged we have ever been.

  We will get to the point where the group has no influence on us… just not quite there yet.
• 

  Midget-Sasquatch

  I've acknowledged this about myself fairly early on in this board (well JWD actually) and I'll agree that I can be classed a "faker". This takes a huge toll on you not just on indivuakity but on self-worth. How good can you feel about yourself if you know you're a fake? A hypocrite?

  Living as a hypocrite for any period of time makes it easier to do. No real nobility or honour in becoming that kind of a person.

  I like Narkissos' point about defining ourselves as part of a group or against one. I think alot of us faders/fakers are more ensnared by this actually being how our jw family assess themselves..."The World" against them. The WT pretty much fosters that mindset. Like some wahabi followers would divide the planet into the "House of War" vs "the House of Submission"

  We're constrained to feign being part of the group or they'd never look at us again. I wonder just how faders are "selfish" though?

  Believe me, if you knew how little my family had, you'd know I'm not putting up with any of this garbage for an inheritance.
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  I loved Narkissos post as well. It seems that in one way or another, being a JW gives anyone who has ever been a part of it a touchstone to define themselves, whether for or against it.

  I struggle with this a lot. Am I an "Ex JW"? (i.e. a title?) Am I simply a person who at one time in their life, used to be a JW, but like other phases in life, that JW phase passed?

  It is my goal to get to the point where I can say "Yeah, I used to be a JW. Can you please pass the ketchup?"

  I don't know if I am there yet. Probably not.
• 

  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  A lot of great comments already. Joannadandy, your observations were, well, dandy.

  I'm working on the fade at this point. It's what's best for my circumstances for now. But that can all change and I'll deal with it.

  I hope that in my previous attempts to defend fading, I've never come across as being critical of those who DA. For those who choose that course, it's great to take decisive action.

  Really, either course is anathema to the organization. The Tower cannot endure the indignity of anyone hinting that there are any flaws in their "spiritual paradise". To varying degrees, it erodes the authority of the organization as people leave with a very public DA statement, or if they simply walk away using whatever excuse. For those who DA, it's a public proclamation that they reject the cult. There is nothing more that the cult can do but to enforce shunning to stop the "apostasy". For those who fade, the cult doesn't have enough power over them to keep them. If the elders or whoever tries to "encourage" or "motivate" them, the effort is wasted. I've known plenty of faders that the BoE would have wished they would have DA so they would have been completely "out" rather than recurring names at every quarterly meeting for "shepherding"... that's how many of you faders have managed to just be forgotten. The elders realize you have no desire to return.

  In previous decades when the growth was booming, someone DAing or fading wasn't such a big deal since more were coming in to fill the gaps. Now, the scene is changing. I know things have changed in the last two English congregations I've been in. Over the past several years, the growth has been very slow and much effort is spent trying to keep those in... in. Elders and servants that step down or are removed, don't have eager replacements. So, responsibilities get spread thin. When someone stops publishing or attending, the CO can get psycho for answers and hounds the hounders. Then the hounders hound the sheeples, and nobody is "encouraged". As I've seen this locally, the CO smears on the whole "what's grieving the spirit" crap. But then when you ask around, the dipwad is using the exact same line in every congregation in the circuit. Obviously, it's not a local problem, it's the entire organization that has the same problem trying to keep the numbers looking good for the corporate reports.

  But I digress. Jeff, you asked about being honest with oneself. I've talked to some of my non-dub friends about these issues and they changed my viewpoint on some things that I'm still trying to digest. They didn't expect me to DA at all, just de-emphasize the religious nonsense and move on. How to boil down their comments without bloating this post...? None of them agree with everything about their churches and their own church scandals, they just don't talk about it much. The don't agree with their parents politics or whatever, they just don't talk about it. With their friends, bosses, workmates, spouses, whoever, they debate some things that are worth it, but they ignore a lot of stuff. Why? Because life is too short to keep fighting, then trying to find new friends that are "just so". One pointed out that it's really not noble to be so honest as to tell everyone they meet on the street: "lady, you're grossly obese!" "hey mister, you're not fooling anyone with that combover!" "kid, cover your zitty face with a paper bag!" Of course, it was a lawyer who pointed out that one can be honest and truthful without being THAT honest and truthful.

  B the X
• 

  Maddie

  Hi Jeff, I have just seen this topic and it is a very sensitive subject,with many serious and far-reaching implications. When I realised that being a JW meant that I was in a mind control cult and not the "Truth" as I had been deceived into believing, I was devastated as most of us were. I was then faced with the choices of what to do about it and although I tried to fade at first, I had to face the fact that I just could not live a lie no matter what the cost.

  I did not send a letter of disassociation or anything thing like that, but I stopped going to the KH and when questioned by my JW son, told him my reasons. Of course the repercussions have been devasting as I have been ostrasized and not permitted to have contact with my granddaughter. The cost has been huge in terms of the heartache and unhappiness this has caused, but it has been the only option for me personally as it is totally unacceptable to me not to have complete freedom from such an insidious cult.

  Maddie