yes Questioning Guest....heaven is open again after being closed for about 63 years...it was about two years ago or a bit more that a QFR indicated that since the number are going up...the calling must still be in place and that they are not "replacements" for the anointed who get horney and fool around and get dfd....... i mentioned it at bookstudy and the conductor and other elders said i was nuts...i stayed quiet till after bookstudy...nice guy that i am...then set them straight...then i told them what good news that was as now "field service will be so much easier now"......they were puzzled...so i explained that this is one less (big)objection to overcome since most at the door have the hope of heaven!!......so hell we dont have to talk them down to paradise as they may be of the annoited......some of them laughed...some not............oompa
Name Things JWs Believe That Are Not Actually Biblically Provable
by minimus 231 Replies latest jw friends
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oompa
btw...i posted this list four months ago.....many here contributed and it was a lot of fun as is this thread...sorry is some are dups:
(1 Corinthians 4:6) . . .that in our case YOU may learn the [rule]: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,”. . .
45 JW Rules/Teaching That "go beyond the things that are written" in the Bible
(there is a new number one....my personal fave and so easy to prove).....feel free to post others as you remember them..............oompa
1. That Jesus used the name "Jehovah" in prayer and in teaching, and that the Apostles did too............... TOTALLY NOT IN BIBLE!!.....the name Jehovah does not appear in ANY ancient Greek or Hebrew manuscript of the Christian Greek Scriptures....(see Insight book
2. clothing requirements................. ties/jackets/suits mandatory for ministry/talks/privileges....and sisters can freeze there ass of rather than wear a hilliary clinton pantsuit or they can not be on the school
3. birthday celebration forbidden....the anniversary of our child's birth is the same importance as wedding anniversary
4. claiming Divine Name it was in the new testament when no manuscript contains it (that's kinda a big one)
5. allowing blood fractions when blood was required to be poured on the ground...never mind that the instructions were only about eating blood and that the only way they could "abstain" from blood was to not eat it or use it in pagan worship (odd that the priests used it so much in the worship of jehovah...barf)...medical use should be perfectly fine...i wonder if the fractions have dirt in it?
6. higher education is a bad thing, even if you live at home...yet high school is ok if you live at home...(and believe me...there is not any difference between the fun stuff you can do at both..but college is more likely to open your mind...not just your zipper)
7. masturbation is an evil sin
8. not celebrating/clapping when someone is repentant and reinstated.......................................true stupid non biblical rule but nobody in bible was reinstated i don't think
9. restricting privileges when someone is reinstated................................the prodigal son was celebrated and welcomed back in full (from bonnzo)
10. Christianity (through one) organization instead of a way of life...............that passes for me
11. Salvation is dependent upon belonging to the JW denomination.....................ditto
12. The Watchtower organization speaks for and is controlled by Jehovah, (thereby equating the organization with God himself)........first half only
13.The "faithful and discreet slave" is an "anointed class" (rather than each individual Christian who shows himself or herself to be responsible and obedient to Christ.).........ditto and a big one on the first half only......see the second part can not be proven by bible either...only mentioned once
14. The early Christians were led by a governing body..................................VERY good one.....15. Can't support any charity linked to any religion, and can't join Boy/Girl Scouts or buy their cookies........mo mimi.......................you would lose all privleges (maybe df??).......I put this under the heading of Food Control....and Hatred of Camping
16. Jesus appointed the "anointed remnant" as his true church in 1919..................................................ditto, not provable by bible alone
17. The so-called "anointed" class (actually, the governing body) is God's channel and prophet.........I think this passes but not sure...scriptures?
18. The Bible cannot be correctly understood without the aid of WT literature and programs.................true, beyond scriptural proof19. Jesus returned in 1914....................(i split this one in two) big one too....since no dates are in bible....this can not be proven using only bible
20. and is "invisibly present" since then................ditto, but god is hard to prove too since invisible...some could argue his return is visible from bible
(21.) Individual JWs must not read Bible-related publications produced by non-WT sources.....................................i think so, any scripture even close?...i suppose there were warnings about foreign gods/practices though
22. Arrogantly promoting the pretense that the JWs maintain higher standards than any other religion and proclaiming publicly that all other churches are members of Babylon the Great..................................passes but barely cause.....well their standard are proven to be pretty darn high...but even IDENTYFYING Babylon TG as false religion can not be proven from the bible, much less that all other religions are part of it
23.The "congregation" of Matthew 18:17 is "the body of elders." (Matthew 18:17) 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector. footnote Or, "to the ecclesia (assembly)." Gr., teiek·kle·si´ai;........................................................big ditto....how can you go from congregation/assembly to "body of elders"?..................way beyond.....
24. Not "partaking" at the "memorial".......DITTO!....if you mean that not all can partake...in bible all in attendance partook, and passed in order to partake.....however everyone desiring everlasting life is to eat jesus bod and drink his blud (ick).....so the whole thing is messed up 25.Secret kangaroo courts..........not mentioned in bible or WT!.........but, Ditto! if you mean that three man judicial committee's not biblical for judging and punishing the sheep....there may be precedent with elders in jerusalem meeting to make a rule....but no precedent for "judicial committee" 26. Jesus is only the mediator to the 144,000...everyone else is a companion and lives by association with the chosen people...........i believe this makes the cut, but am not certain on the scripture they use for that, nor the main wt's that state that....so somebody post that evidence here please........we should prove that one is not in bible in anyway, and that WT says it is so
27. Permitting (and encouraging) child baptism. Every baptism in the NT involved "men and women." Jesus was about 30 years old when he was baptized..........................ditto and one of my pet peeves for sure!....WT even acknowledges that in first century only adults were baptised...(yet they say they try so hard to imitate the 1st century christian congo)...often the carnage families are often put to is due to child baptism
28. Discouraging/forbidding school sports and extra-curricular activities. This is done under the auspices of 1 Cor. 15:33 (bad associations), but what scriptural precedent is there for classifying all non-JWs (or even all non-christians, for that matter) as bad association? Jesus associated with sinners and non-believers...................this make the list....even if it was an all jw school they would not even have sports because they claim it "promotes a competitive nature".....WTF is wrong with that either????
29.Requiring a confession of certain types of sins to a group of elders. The NT is clear that forgiveness only comes through Christ's sacrifice. There's a passage in James that says 'if there is anyone sick among you, let him call the older men...' The WT interprets this to mean that "spiritually sick" JWs have to confess really bad sins (fornication, drunkenness, stealing, etc.) to elders. But that's a bit of a stretch. In Ray Franz's second book, he discusses a disagreement that he had with Uncle Fred about this scripture. Ray pointed out that the Greek word translated "sick" literally meant physically sick. This makes sense to me, because at the time James wrote his letter, the "older men" still had gifts of the spirit--such as healing. Thus, if someone was sick he could go to one of these faith-healing elders! But even if James meant "spiritually sick," there's still nothing in that scripture that says "people who commit certain types of sins have to confess them to a group of men in order to be forgiven." It just isn't there.......................................absolutely on the list!.....masturbation gets a lot of confession...i wish every dub would go ever time they have an immoral thought since it just like real adultery anyway.....the elders would have no time for any public meetings.......
30. Disfellowshipping for smoking. While I agree that it's a rotten habit, there's no Biblical basis for casting someone out of the congregation for smoking...........................definitely beyond what is written... and i bet there are many other things they df for that are not biblical
31. Allowing women to comment and give parts on meetings. Paul is explicit and clear in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 that women are to be silent in church. Period. This is an example of how JWs pick and choose which parts of the Bible to take literally. When Paul says to "abstain from blood," the JWs say that means to completely abstain; but for some reason, when Paul says for women to be silent in church, they don't think that means to be completely silent. Inconsistent much?.............................................yes...hot damm i had not thought of that!...........how do they explain the "silent" part???...I Will look it up
33. Disfellowshipping for gambling. ...............for sure beyond what is written...God himself "got in on some action" because the apostles PRAYED before they cast lots to choose a replacement for judas
34.Requiring overseers to maintain "the national average" in field service.................................yep that qualifies, and i had never even thought about that....very good scriptural support there olin and good logic
35. Not allowing women to carry microphones or work behind the literature counter (or for women to be on the Governing Body)...............................i added the last part, because a woman could be on it and never "teach" and she would not have to be "silent" when they meet.........and how stupid they have nothing they can do but clean the hall when they can frikkin do every single thing the brothers do and side by side them at a quick-build!
36.Forbidding voting in political elections...........................i agree and if loss of privileges or being "marked" in some way if you do then it is definitely going beyond things written (great point about Joseph and Daniel btw)
37. Bible truths revealed as a light getting brighter and brighter..................................what a biggie! (was just reminded of this by Megaflower)..........this teaching is not found in the bible.......it clearly goes beyond what is written
.38. Crop Control....You cannot raise tobacco.................from mimi.......................... true.....and oldie but goodie, still no new light
39. You cannot do some type of work in a hospital, etc. in lieu of military service......from mimi................true, and prison is the result for many
40. You cannot serve in the military.............more mimi..............................made up rule....sure was a lotta jw military in old testament!
41. Job Placement Program...You can not work for a company that produced ammunition that was sold for war effort....................pretty sure that is still a non Bible rule.....
42. You can not join the YMCA or YWCA.......................i believe they will expel you for this
43. "This generation" (Matt. 24:34) spoken of by Jesus has a second fulfillment.....by still-in74...............this is true for all "second fulfillments" not mentioned in the Bible
44. That Jesus second coming would include and inspection of all religions and pick one out as his personal fave...................how do they come up with this stuff?....not in Bible
45. Hatred of mens facial hair and sideburns............................privleges withheld if you have too much or wrong style....also if head hair is too long
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isaacaustin
So reniaa, if you are going to use
1 Corinthians 10:20-21No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.
to ban Christmas and like holidays you must ban everything that falls under this heading of pagan origin- wedding rings (since it is a covenant between a couple and God), anniversaries, and I personally wonder why John the Baptist (If your logic- actually the WTs illogic) wasn;t reprimanded for baptising when this clearly had a pagan origin.
If you are applying this Cor verse (which when read in context is different from what you convey)...you must apply it to everything- not picking and choosing as the WT does.
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Deputy Dog
oompa
1. That Jesus used the name "Jehovah" in prayer and in teaching, and that the Apostles did too............... TOTALLY NOT IN BIBLE!!.....the name Jehovah does not appear in ANY ancient Greek or Hebrew manuscript of the Christian Greek Scriptures....(see Insight book
You nailed it! The name Jehovah is not in the bible, Greek or Hebrew! isaacaustin
Now, Jehovah is the name of the Divine Being so Jesus can rightly be called Jehovah.
Sorry isaac, Jehovah's not in there. The name of the Divine is YHWH or Yahweh.
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drwtsn32
That Smurfs are bad.
I've looked all through the Bible and haven't seen any mention of Smurfs or Gargamel.
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isaacaustin
Correct Deputy Dog...YHWH- Jehovah is simply a mistransliteration...Thanks for correcting me there..
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reniaa
hi isaac
Come on, the whole chapter is on foods both unclean and allowed it's clearly on Jewish issues both food and festivals, your the one that has to prove this includes pagan festivals but the scriptures I showed clearly establish that pagan celebrations are a no go, because the christians saw them ALL as promoting gluttony, drunkeness and over indulgences etc.
The whole bible shows when Gods people went in pagan lands and people they were expected not to take on the pagan practises as a strict bible theme. If anything the greek scriptures are even more firm on this.
John 15:19
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.James 4:3-4 (New International Version)
3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
4 You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Reniaa
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insearchoftruth
From J. Mason Emersons site:
THANKSGIVING IS BIBLICAL AND INTERNATIONALToday Thanksgiving is celebrated in the Philippines, Liberia, Canada, Guam, South Korea, some of the Caribbean region etc, and there were also days of thanks throughout Germanic and Slavic speaking nations.
God began the annual autumn harvest Festival of Booths or Festival of Ingathering for Israel's tribes. (Lev 23:33, Deu 16:13) The New Testament shows the giving of thanks as when Paul says many gave thanks to God for having saved his life. (I Cor 1:11) Pilgrim colonists in America later gave thanks for survival and bounty.
The various British colonies in what is now the U.S. had Thanksgiving, George Washington made it into a national holiday and it was not regularly celebrated in the U.S. until Abraham Lincoln. How strange then that some falsely claim Thanksgiving has no biblical basis or is a nationalistic holiday for the U.S. alone!
Further, at Colossians 2:16 Paul notes: "So don't let anyone judge you because of what you eat or drink. Don't let anyone judge you about holy days. I'm talking about special feasts and New Moons and Sabbath days." So Jehovah's Witnesses and the few other groups opposing Thanksgiving do so without a foot to stand on, including not scripturally.
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isaacaustin
hi isaac
Come on, the whole chapter is on foods both unclean and allowed it's clearly on Jewish issues both food and festivals,
My reply: You can make that claim but it is simply assertion. Paul’s staments are borad and general, not specific as to Jewish festivals.
your the one that has to prove this includes pagan festivals
but the scriptures I showed clearly establish that pagan celebrations are a no go, because the christians saw them ALL as promoting gluttony, drunkeness and over indulgences etc.
My reply: You have not shown that the archaic, ancient origin that no loner has meaning to a day makes it a no-go. The Wt’s own set of rules is inconsistent and becomes a case of them picking and choosing what members can and can not do. Sure, a festival that currently worships a sun god is a no-go. This is not the case here.
John the Baptist shows by what he does that the pagan origin of baptism is irrelevant.
The whole bible shows when Gods people went in pagan lands and people they were expected not to take on the pagan practises as a strict bible theme. If anything the greek scriptures are even more firm on this.
My reply:We are not under the Law anymore…only the law of love. The WT reverts to the Old Covenant.
John 15:19
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.My reply: Irrelevant. This is speaking of those who put their trust in anything other than Jesus.
James 4:3-4 (New International Version)
3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
4You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
Reniaa
My reply: This verse is comepletely irrelevant to whether the archaic origin of a day is an issue to whether it is ok to use the day to honor the Lord. So, reniaa the burden of proof remains on you to show the ancient origin of a day precludes using the day to honor the Lord. You have failed to make your point.
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isaacaustin
reniaa said:
Come on, the whole chapter is on foods both unclean and allowed it's clearly on Jewish issues both food and festivals, your the one that has to prove this includes pagan festivals but the scriptures I showed clearly establish that pagan celebrations are a no go, because the christians saw them ALL as promoting gluttony, drunkeness and over indulgences etc.
my reply:
Again reniaa, you have not answered my question. IF WE ASSUME for a second that this is speaking of the Jewsih festivals only, on what right does the WT override Paul's words and take this freedom away from its captives? A JW who observed Purim, or the Feast of Dedication would be dfed just as quickly as for Christmas.
You need to examine the context in Romans 14. Along with the mention of holidays, Paul also mentions meat sacrificed to idols. So he was not speaking only of those who would maintain Jewish customs, but also of those who might engage in "pagan" customs - since it was not a practice of the Jews to sacrifice meat to idols. So the context specifically leans toward things that might be regarded as "pagan" by his readers. Since Paul never mentions what days he is speaking of it is simply a bbaseless assertion to claim he is speaking only of the Jewish festivals. Again though, even IF you were correct in stating he was, on what grounds does the WT take away from its captives the freedom Paul gives here?