Is the Downfall of Jehovah's Witnesses More Important Then You?

by AllTimeJeff 82 Replies latest jw friends

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  AllTimeJeff

  Hi Abe.

  I have no problem with you or anyone continuing to express yourselves through faith in the bible. That is of course, a personal decision. I have my opinions, but recognize that as we are all different, your decisions must be your responsibility.

  The point of this thread ultimately is about the individual. Those who leave JW's have had their individuality sucked out of them. Regardless of the personal decisions one makes regarding religious faith, or to decide not to worship, to be you and to think for yourself is a great thing.

  However, I do take exception to a couple of statements you made.

  Think almost anyone who decided to get baptised must have at some point had an appreciation for the bible.

  I don't think so. Baptism so you could get married to a JW you fell in love with? Baptism because of pressure from your parents? What about those, like me, who grew up without any choice but to "believe" that the bible is the "unerring" word of god, only to find that it is indeed a flawed book?? There are those and other situations. I think it an error to believe that all who were baptized a JW had to have an appreciation for it.

  Some were tricked to view the bible in a light it does not merit.

  If a person did not have appreciation for the bible and still decided to get baptised I would find myself questioning their integrity.

  That would be your burden then, wouldn't it. I for one find this statement a bit judgmental for my tastes. But this is the kind of mentality the bible can breed, and a reason why I actually turn away from it, as their is no evidence of love in this, where an ancient book must be defended and put on a higher level then the people. That is a trademark of JW's....

  As a side note I did receive an email thanking me for providing the link in the post above so your thread has not been in vain.

  Does that mean I am obliged to extend the gratitude?

  Congrats on the email. I am sure the person who sent you the email is very capable of extending any further thanks on their own, if that is their wish.
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  Spike Tassel

  Is the Downfall of Jehovah's Witnesses More Important Then You?

  I say No! The issue of Jehovah's Universal Sovereignty is more important than any personal salvation, whether for myself or other. Personal salvation is CONTINGENT upon supporting fulling the issue of Jehovah's Universal Sovereignty. Jehovah doesn't (and will not) forget any of his loyal servants.
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  AllTimeJeff

  I say No! The issue of Jehovah's Universal Sovereignty is more important than any personal salvation, whether for myself or other. Personal salvation is CONTINGENT upon supporting fulling the issue of Jehovah's Universal Sovereignty. Jehovah doesn't (and will not) forget any of his loyal servants.

  Yes Spike, amazingly, those of us who use to be JW's remember that this is the official dogma of the Governing Body.

  As a former Jehovah's Witness, I can tell you that the issue of Jehovah's sovreignty is conveniently tied to recognizing the Governing Body's authority, and it is offical JW dogma that if a person rejects the Governing Body, they have rejected Jehovah. (since the Governing Body teaches that Jehovah has given them authority)

  Thus, the two are inextricably linked.

  As I have stated many times on this forum, an all poweful god who demands all to worship him, yet mysteriously has been absent for milleniums, then tells me that the proving of his right to rule is more powerful then curing the pain of billions on this planet can kiss my ass. All anyone has to do when challenged on ownership rights is present a title deed. Since "god" created the earth, one would think that this wouldn't be too difficult for him to do. Instead, he plays a maniacal version of hide and seek. Good luck on that one....

  A person can worship YHWH, Jehovah, Jesus, or Felix the Cat for all I care. Those are personal matters. But the Governing Body's authority, and their insistence on accepting all "current" dogma without regard for past teachings demonstrates the hiearchy of Jehovah's Witnesses to be nothing more then a cult, out to protect their authority at all costs.

  Spike, continue to worship Jehovah all you want, but let no one mistake the group of people that you defend to be anything more then a cult.
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  Spike Tassel

  how has Jehovah been "myseriously absent for millenniums"? why are the terms "dogma" and "cult" used regarding Jehovah's named people?
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  villabolo

  Spike, your religious organization named itself, not Jehovah.

  villabolo
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  AllTimeJeff

  how has Jehovah been "myseriously absent for millenniums"? why are the terms "dogma" and "cult" used regarding Jehovah's named people?

  Spike, the original purpose of this thread was to discuss the ramifications of trying to expose the Governing Body and how it can affect exiting JW's. Your questions would best be presnted in a thread of your own. I have no desire to see this discussion degenerate into a JW apologefest.
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  John Doe

  Any chance we get to take a leak and piss on the WTBTS, we do it. If there is a "will not mention the unholy name" JW apologist, "we" gang up on her.

  Oh the chance to let out all the vitriol and steam, the hate and anger, the embarassment and shame, the stupidity... And we feel like LETTING THE SOB'S HAVE IT!!!

  You use the term "we" awfully loosely.
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  AllTimeJeff

  You use the term "we" awfully loosely.

  Yes, Doe, I did. It's called a generalization, and I think that those who chase after apologists, as well as those who don't, are known by what they right. At the time, there was a bit of controversy, which I attempted to address. I hope you know I did not have you in mind.

  Also, I stated this at the beginning....

  (on proofreading this, I feel that this is more preachy then I meant it. So as a disclaimer, I hope you know that if you get that impression, that I didn't mean it that way. Having said that, this is what I feel, so if you relate to this in any way, enjoy. If you don't, thats cool too....)

  Thats all. I didn't mean anything personal...
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  Lucky Calamity

  Jeff,

  You make some valid points and ask some important questions. I've stayed away a long time because it was taking way too much of my time, and I wasn't getting out of or putting into the site what I had hoped for.

  I'm here this weekend as a conglomeration of problems/issues made me feel the need to just reach out to those who've "been there, done that, and to just bitch:"

  My JW parents are in town for an ASSembly and call to invite my aunt (who's no different from me, except that she's not d'fed) to dinner; of course they don't invite me cuz I'm d'fed. The weird thing is, I'm perfectly happy not to spend time with them cuz they're religious obsession has made them impossible people to socialize with, but I do lament the loss of family period. It is a real loss, despite all the other good things in my life.

  I've been sick with a cold and my car broke. (I took a break from the computer to go out and buy and install a new battery and air filter).

  You know, the anger that people experience comes and goes, as can the obsessions . . . i

  . . . t's always good to have someone around to remind us of when we're becoming obsessive or overly preoccupied with one thing or another.

  Forgive me please for answering this irrelevent question of Spike's, but I just can not help myself. Spike said:

  Is the Downfall of Jehovah's Witnesses More Important Then You?

  I say No! The issue of Jehovah's Universal Sovereignty is more important than any personal salvation, whether for myself or other. Personal salvation is CONTINGENT upon supporting fulling the issue of Jehovah's Universal Sovereignty. Jehovah doesn't (and will not) forget any of his loyal servants.

  Spike - Why would an all-powerful god need any servants or witnesses to establish his sovereignty? Couldn't he just do that himself?
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  Spike Tassel

  how has Jehovah been "myseriously absent for millenniums"? why are the terms "dogma" and "cult" used regarding Jehovah's named people?

  AllTimeJeff:— Spike, the original purpose of this thread was to discuss the ramifications of trying to expose the Governing Body and how it can affect exiting JW's. Your questions would best be presnted in a thread of your own. I have no desire to see this discussion degenerate into a JW apologefest.

  Spike Tassel to AllTimeJeff:— These questions of mine arise directly out of your presentation, so I believe they are still in context, even if now tangential. I see no easy way of setting up a better context than this to get your views clarified.

  to Lucky Calamity:— No-one can be all-powerful right now, since we each have some power too, unless we all give it back to Jehovah voluntarily. Sovereignty comes with power. We're dealing with a Loving God, after all, despite how many view Him.