Should Martin Luther have refrained from posting his 95 theses and "waited on Jehovah?"

by gubberningbody 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • gubberningbody
    gubberningbody

    Where would any "Reformation" come from or any "Great Awakening" without dissent?

    Was he wrong to act in harmony with his conscience?

    Do we view him and every reformer since Jesus Christ as simply "impatient, faithless people who refused to 'wait on Jehovah?"

    If this is so or not so I'd really like to know.

    Was Jehovah "using" all these people and yet these, because of their impatience and refusal to 'wait on Jehovah' didn't have his favor?

    Were these 'used' like we'd use a stick and then toss the stick aside?

    If not, if there ever IS justification, when is the individual allowed to object to ANY religious authority?

    What does it really mean to 'wait on Jehovah?'

    If we are 'waiting' how do we know when he has arrived, that we may stop waiting?

    What does he expect a Christian to do?

    Follow Christ as he or she sees in his or her mind and heart as going, being and doing, or instead sit idly 'waiting' for Jehovah to do it all?

    (can you tell I have never for the phrase 'waiting on Jehovah' to be particularly helpful?)

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    gubberningdody

    Great question! Luther understood the difference between being a slave to Christ and being a slave to an organization.

    Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves),I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not retract anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. May God help me. Amen.

    On 18 April 1521, Luther before the Diet of Worms.

  • gubberningbody
    gubberningbody

    I'm bumping this. I suppose I'd like an apologist to answer me. Like, say one of the GB.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    If you reject Sola Scriptura, Luther loses some relevance.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Should Rosa Parks have moved to the back of the bus?

    We, whom I believe are created in God's image, know within ourselves when enough is enough and have a moral obligation to speak up and out when things are not right.

    While I'm certain that God is going to put a stop to evil, in the meantime, it's up to us. No need to wait; he has given us all the equpiment necessary for action.

    Sylvia

  • AuntBee
    AuntBee

    Well, it was presumably a good thing, according to Russell, who called Luther one of the Seven MEssengers of the CHurch. (along with St Paul, St John, Arius, Waldo, Wycliffe, and .......... C T Russell!!!)

    Kind of a garbled message. ?

    If Russell is one of the 7 messengers mentioned in Revelation, i'm one of the 10 virgins mentioned in the Gospels! No, really. It came to me in a vision after reading the Bible for 14.9 months straight, without pausing for food, sleep or sex.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    LOL @ AuntBee!

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    This is one of those "have your cake and eat it too" things for WTS.
    They would generally have us believe that people like Martin Luther were of the "anointed" or those moved by Jehovah's Spirit to do good, without directly admitting it. But they would have us believe that this was necessary occasionally in the Gentile Times because it was a dark time without an appointed ruler from God.

    Then they would have us believe that such men only did what they did because Jehovah guided it or blessed it somehow, and that since Russell's day, the guidance has fallen on a small group of men in the WT organization. So, just as Luther was doing God's Will, paving the way for people to learn more and be ready for more in the future, Russell/Rutherford/Knorr/Franz/the GB are doing God's Will.

    As far as Rosa Parks, the WTS would have had her give up the seat on the bus. The only protesting approved by WTS was protesting against anything that prevented the sale of WT literature. But, by Rosa Parks' day, the anointed were among us to show us the way. Civil rights was not their issue.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Luther had good issues and he was right to get attention. Pope Leo X accepted about 54 of Luther's theses, and rejected 41. Later on the Catholic Church also had an internal reformation ... it was proper, but from the stand point of many who joined the reformation under Luther, it was too little, too late. Today, there is a measure of recognition and harmony between Rome and the Lutherans ... for example, if a Catholic wishes to marry a Lutheran, they can have a joint ceremony with blessings from both a Lutheran Pastor and Catholic Priest.

    But, Luther was not correct in everything. Of the remaining 41 Theses rejected, Pope Leo X did have the best scholars and theologians review them, and determine the results. So, Luther's issues were not rejected out of hand without study and good consideration. Unfortunately, the facts of history are not fully carried through, and often only one-sided statements get reported.

    As a Catholic, I find much agreement with Luther's concerns ... and on some he was incorrect. Initially, Luther was only seeking discussion. He never dreamed in his wildest imagination that his Theses would become so popular so fast. This is due in part to the development of the printing press, which accelerated the spread of information ... it only took about a month or so for all of Europe to hear of or read his Theses ... his These were originally intended for a local debate.

    Should Luther have waited on the Church to change? Today, a Catholic would be hard pressed to find the Church engaged in any of the things to which Luther objected, save a very few. The Church started its own reformation about 40 years later in 1560, and it lasted into the 1640s. In this period it was very fast for the Church. It was likely too slow for Luther ... but it did change. I believe that Luther had to follow his conscience first ... as this is how God will judge him. But, I also believe that those who stayed with the Church, including the leaders, had every right to follow their conscience. Objectively examining history, the Church did a fairly good job of responding and reforming over time, the the Diet of Worms, but today's standards, was a bit excessive. These developments are something that you will not see from the Watchtower toward the hundreds of "Theses" from ex-JWs.

    Luther was overwhelmed by the Reformation. It soon progressed from a religious dispute to a Continent-wide demand for social revolution. The reformation perhaps was needed as a way to vent the need for change ... and change did happen ... not always for the better. Luther would have been happy just to see the Church reform ... and in a way, it is too bad he could not have lived to see it.

    What finally happened to Luther? He was declared an outlaw by the Edict of Worms, but it was never really enforced, and he was protected by a German Prince. Luther never left his province in Germany again. Instead he married, an ex-nun named Katharine von Bora, whom he had helped to escape from her nunnery and they had a large family together, Luther was able to devote himself to the simpler pleasures of life, gardening, music and of course, writing. Luther finally died in the year 1543, seized by a crippling heart attack but he held onto his righteousness and rage until the very end. "When I die, I want to be a ghost...So I can continue to pester the bishops, priests and godless monks until that they have more trouble with a dead Luther than they could have had before with a thousand living ones."http://www.pbs.org/empires/martinluther/about_relu.html

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Luther was right in many things regarding abuses. But nearly all his complaints have long since been addressed by the Catholic Church. He also took upon himself things that he had no authority to do, like stripping 6 books out of the Bible, and leaving only 66. Maybe he was acting in his own conscience, and that deserves respect, but Paul killed Christians too once, thinking it was a duty.

    BTS

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