hi everybody and my story

by inbetween 44 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  inbetween

  Hello !

  As mentioned in my very first port here, I will now give my story and some thoughts I have so far.

  I´ve been lurking here for about a month, before I registered. How did I come here ?

  Well, a few months ago something like that would be unthinkable for me.

  I was raised as a JW, and serve currently as an elder in a congregation. I have family, also JWs. As a teen I made my decision to get babtized after I did some research and considered diffrerent opinions as well. However, for me it was clear, that once I believe in the bible of being Gods word, only JW know the truth about it.

  But soon I realized, not everything is perfect in "Gods organization". The very first thing that disturbed me, I remember, was the 1975 issue. It was not so much the fact, that a prediction went wrong (also 1 st century Christians had wrong expectations) but the fact, that the GB tried to blame the brothers for it.

  The next serious issue was the change regarding civil service. Claiming it is Gods will not to participate in civil service, and being disfellowshipped for it, and then changing (gods ?) mind afterwards also bugged me, even though I was not personally affected.

  Still, waiting on jehovah was the main argument, so i kept waiting...

  Several minor things didnt understand, but they have no bearing on the present life (example: who will be resurrected ?, can they resurected ones marry ? some inconstistences in the explanation of Daniels prophecy; what traditions of pagan origin are to avoid, what is acceptabel ? etc) I considered writing QfR, but never found time.

  However, as a teacher of Gods word, I felt the need to understand important things fully. What is important ? Especially matters that have a strong impact on our present life and on our worship. Im my mind the teaching on blood is one of this issues. before i kind of used to ignore it, thinking there is always an alternative available anyway, and blood is a risky treatment. However, when i found out, this is not entirely true, I started to think about the teaching of the WTS more thoroughly. As I was not able to understand, where the biblical reason for the teaching on fractions lies (especially the changes after 2000), I began to search the internet, with the intention to find a scientific or medical background to substantiate this teaching. ..and so i came to the webside www.ajwrbd.org . At first glance i thought , "hey a webside of the HLC, cool...".. but after reading a bit I found out, there are actually other brothers who have serious doubts on the blood teaching...

  well make a long story short, digging further in the internet I came to this site..

  Since reading some comments I realized, that there are more teachings i also had a problem with, but never fully thought it through..

  anyway, I´m now in a rather difficult situation, I have not made my mind up fully, but anyway I cant do anything, because i would , would loose family, friends etc...on the other hand I would probably support a religion, which is (partly) wrong on serious issues....a loose/loose situation actually....

  therefore I put a little list together , this only reflects my mind and is not meant to be an absolute truth, it conatins my thinking on the pros and cons of JW:

  Pros:

  encouraging bible reading, going to the source, other religions often do not bother or even not believe anymore in Gods word.

  preaching work, ok others done it too, but not to the extent as the JW, also not about the kingdom,

  neutrality, as a group known for not participating in war, ( WWII, Ruwanda etc)

  difference to some confusing teachings in Christianity, like trinity, immortal soul, hellfire etc (I read some of the arguments on this site, they just didnt convince me otherwise)

  promotes a life, which is not so bad, shields of many bad habits common in world today, gives hope etc, therefore bringing out the best in some people, also bad things though in others...

  cons:

  teaching on blood, not consistent, not bible based etc..

  governing body, no foundation inscriptures, but determining faith of followers - unscriptural

  reporting, unscriptural

  while disfellowshipping has some basis in scriptures, many reasons are not scriptural

  human error admitted, but on the other hand any criticism is suprressed

  not sure yet:

  1914/chronologe, I didnt have enough time to examine it carefully enough, however 1914 really had a deep impact in human history..not sure..

  Child abuse: no offnese but reports are so far one-sided, have to consider it further later on...especially how much is it the fault of an individual and how much is the org involved...

  This is just a short list of what my conclusions are so far, this may change as I progress maybe...

  either way, it puts me on a real crises of conscience, I´m somehow stuck, I have to be a hypocrite in a sense, quite difficult. What can i do ? maybe I can do my part to avoid further damage on individuals, by applying unscriptural doctrines. In the past i could a few times prevent certain steps from elders, being to formal on things without consulting the scriptures when it came to seroiur wrongdongs. I am certainly known as being soft (too tolerant for some) but maybe in this way I can do some good, while still being in...but what if it comes to a matter, where according to the WTS I have to judge in a certain way, while I know the scriptures say nothing or the opposite ? I dont know what I will do then, its really not easy...

  maybe others in the same situation may exchange experiences

  sorry for the long post,

  regards,

  inbetween
• 

  stillin

  inbetween, I can relate to your being in a tough place. And you're right about "making a list" to weigh out the pros and cons. I'm in pretty much the same place as you, the Witnesses do offer a decent way of life and some solid thinking on a good many biblical issues. On the flip side there is some real unreasonableness and hard-nosed positions that just don't hold up.

  This has been a good place to go to get my balance. I'm still in, but with a few adjustments I think I could find my stride without the heavy hand of the Society involving itself in every facet of my life. Jehovah knows who each of us are, we do our best, we use our minds and really, what about those millions of people out there who are doing that WITHOUT the lockstep marching that we have to do with this organization? There is joy outside of the "truth," I feel certain. But we all have to sort it out for ourselves.

  There are some good people here, some studious, some funny, some astute, some undecided, like you and I are. But how it can be WRONG to just listen, ask questions, and ponder the replies is beyond me...so here I am.

  Welcome.
• 

  cameo-d

  Hello in-between.

  Many here are in your same dilemma.

  you said" This is just a short list of what my conclusions are so far, this may change as I progress maybe...

  either way, it puts me on a real crises of conscience"

  Have you ever read that book "Crisis of Conscience"? I would think that should be number one on your list. It was written by Ray Franz who, like you served the institution for many years.

  I particularly wanted to comment on your "pro" list.

  Pros:

  encouraging bible reading, going to the source, other religions often do not bother or even not believe anymore in Gods word.

  How do you really know what other religions are doing if you have not been in their churches or read their literature? You are basing this on heresay.

  preaching work, ok others done it too, but not to the extent as the JW, also not about the kingdom,

  If it was really all about the preaching work, why would they not use all forms of communication available? If they were really determined that their message could "save lives" and was of utmost importance, don't you think they would use television, radio, and internet? If destruction of those who had not heard god's word was a real concern...don't you think they would employ every means possible to get the word out?

  How really successful is the d-t-d these days? Don't most people know it's a waste of time? Do JWs continue just so they can feel persecuted and superior by being rejected? Perhaps that is the purpose it serves to behave in this manner.

  neutrality, as a group known for not participating in war, ( WWII, Ruwanda etc)

  Not participating in war does not necessarily mean that they promote peace. Their teachings do more to cause divisions among people than any other I have seen. They divide families with their policies of disfellowshipping those who "ask too many questions". They are very pharisical in their approach to others, often seeing others as 'worldly opposition' rather than just another brother who bleeds the same. It is not a war with guns, but attitude. I don't believe preaching "the godly hate" toward anyone who is not of your religion is anything Jesus would have promoted.

  difference to some confusing teachings in Christianity, like trinity, immortal soul, hellfire etc (I read some of the arguments on this site, they just didnt convince me otherwise)

  There are many people who are not JWs that don't believe those things either. It is not exclusive to JWs.

  promotes a life, which is not so bad, shields of many bad habits common in world today, gives hope etc, therefore bringing out the best in some people, also bad things though in others...

  It promotes a life of denying yourself deeper learning about Jehovah's creation. Want to study bugs, birds, plants? You don't need to know more than what you can see. Children are not encouraged to become scientists, or geologists, or enter any school of study or field where their contribution might make a difference to the world. People miss out on really learning about the world around them and the things that Jehovah created for man's amusement and pleasure. And speaking of pleasure...there is to be none of that! The schedule of meetings and preaching work is so strict there is no time for television, or reading books, or taking courses or developing hobbies.

  I see most people putting their lives on hold, waiting for the next one, when everything will be perfect.

  I guess a lot of religions have tried to comfort man by making them believe the "next life" will be better. Look at the elaborate rituals of ancient Egyptians who tried to take all their stuff with them!
• 

  Black Sheep

  Hi inbetween, Welcome to the forum....and to our nightmare. I am sure you know that many of us here have been where you are now.

  After a while here, your list of pros will get shorter, your cons will get longer. God only knows what your 'not sure yet' list will do.

  You will also find that most of us have the same problems with having family members in the cult and that there are not a lot of easy ways to deal with that except to come to places like this for help/commiseration/venting/etc.

  The 1914 thingy is easy to get a handle on. It requires 607 to be correct. That is easy to disprove with your WT CD. Try it. Just look up the kings from Nebuchadnezzar to Nabonidus and get the lengths of their reignal years and try to work out a king list that fits WT doctrine. Post your results here for a bit of fun.

  I made life defining decisions based on the civil service rules that they threw out later, so I know where you are coming from on that one.

  Stick around, make some new friends, have a good time.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  doofdaddy

  It's funny, I often read these sorts of dilemmas on this site and yet yours seem to hit closer to home. I guess I have been reminded of my crisis, always believing I had found the "truth" and then finding after a lot of years that what I had been told wasn't necessarily true and in fact were constructed falsehoods.

  In my opinion, once your eyes are open, there is only one way to go, forward. I'm one of those bull at a gate types who moves quickly, not realising the damage done by my decision. You seem to be more thoughtful. Good on you and keep reading here.

  As so many have said, it's like the Matrix and taking the red pill. It can be a terrifying ride but it ultimately leads to us taking responsibility and deciding for ourselves what is real and true.
• 

  sidgi

  Hi inbetween,

  I almost never post here, but I do look in from time to time. Your circumstances struck a nerve, so I decided to take pen in hand, so to speak. this is an article that deals with the circumstances your in right now, possibly it might be of help. If not it should give some insite on how some others have looked at the situation.

  http:www.cfmin.com./wpthoughts/?cat=56
• 

  quietlyleaving

  Hi inbetween welcome to JWN

  I'm in a similar situation. After visiting JW family for a couple of weeks recently (and attending the meetings) I was once again reminded of the pros of Jehovahs witnessess. I could even find lots of encouraging stuff in the 2 watchtower studies. I answered up approximately 7 times and my answers were heavily weighted towards creating variety rather than conformity - sentences in the Watchtower lend themselves to this very well. I don't think this is being hypocritcal but I did notice that hypocrisy was mentioned a few times in generalised comments and I felt uncomfortable but then I remembered a JWN saying - when a finger is pointed at others, there are 3 pointing back at oneself. I guess what I'm saying is that hyprocisy is a big issue for Jehovahs witnesses and they emphasize it a lot (when I was in I used to worry about being a hypocrite) - it doesn't need to be an issue for us.

  regarding your point

  but what if it comes to a matter, where according to the WTS I have to judge in a certain way, while I know the scriptures say nothing or the opposite ? I dont know what I will do then, its really not easy... maybe others in the same situation may exchange experiences

  this is tough because crunch time is always around the next corner.
• 

  digderidoo

  Hi Inbetween, welcome to the forum.

  For me the issue was 1914, it is worth looking into. I always used to use the fact that JW's prohesied this date as reason enough to prove JW's had the truth.

  Imagine my surprise when i found out that what they prophesied was Armageddon. That there were a number of dates of which 1914 was only one, that the thoughts on 1914 being an invisible presence, along with dropping the dates of 1874, 1925 happened in 1929. That the same guy (Nelson Barbour) who changed the adventist prophecy of 1874, coming up with an invisible presence idea after the event for the Adventists, then went on to write for the Watchtower. In fact Russel himself was an assistant editor on the Adventist magazine, Herald of the Morning, not just associated with the adventists i was led to believe, i was told that he just listened in on their meetings. It is no wonder that this invisible presence idea of 1914 was adopted.

  Then to top it all Jerusalem wasn't even destroyed in 607BCE, but in 587/6BCE. Only JW's give the 607 date for the destruction of Jerusalem. They do this by counting 70 years backwards from 537BCE when they guesstimate Cyrus announced his decree....which shocked me, considering the certainty they place on 1914. They then present the 70 year period as a scriptural reason to acccept 607, verses a secular reason to accept 587/6....a complete strawman's argument as their are plenty of ways to harmonise a 70 year period with a 587/6 date, so this date then becomes both scriptural and secular. 1914 was completely debunked for me, if they were wrong about this, what else can they be wrong about i began to wonder.

  I do not want to give all the details on 607-1914 as there is far too much to digest for someone having doubts, but it is well worth the effort of looking into.

  Welcome to the forum, so Neo will you take the red pill or the blue pill, all we can offer is the truth about the troof?

  Paul
• 

  inbetween

  thanks very much for your welcome,

  its really a tough time, well we want others always to do the same with their beliefs and social environment, so its an expereince to be on the other side of the argument this time....

  yes, i actually look forward to dig into the 1914 thing, because it always interested me, but never understood, why 7 times of a gentile ruler should represent Gods rulership being interrupted, the bible never is specific, just some dubious hints....

  and if I find all the contradicting information in the WT literatur regarding chronology, even better, then i have good points to discuss, when the time is ripe...

  for now I may have to be undercover, I have a lot of work to do in the "truth" (?), its quit hard, when you do it without your heart in it...

  but I let you know, especially the blood issue, i need to discuss with some of my friends (some elders too), its just so off and very dangerous to people.

  inbetween
• 

  MidwichCuckoo

  Welcome inbetween

  Pro - encouraging bible reading, going to the source, other religions often do not bother or even not believe anymore in Gods word.

  Are you sure that other religions 'often do not bother or even not believe anymore in Gods word' ? Or is that what the WT wants JWs to believe? And does the WT really encourage Bible reading (a recent WT article discourages JWs from studying the Bible alone and 'forbids' them to compare the 'New World Translation' with the original manuscripts. If the NWT is an accurate Bible, it should stand up to scrutiny - yet the WT KNOWS it is one of the worst translations of the Bible), or does it just use the Bible to back up (badly in most cases) WT literature? A JW 'Bible study' is actually a study of a WT publications.