The truth is that the reason my wife and I left was bound up with "Making the Truth Our Own"

by gubberningbody 60 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Vinny

  Spike Tassell ewrites: "I didn't say yet who taunted me. It was actually Vinny, and I didn't take his bait."

  **** Spike you are full of bologna!

  You didn't take what bait? I asked you to prove that has God has chosen Watchtower, and dispenses food from himself to all the little JW's, despite THIS WATCHTOWER FACT OF LIFE: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm

  You see Spike, the printed page does not lie. God was never behind all those PAGES AND PAGES of Watchtower embarrassments and humiliations for their entire existence.

  Now you try to claim you didn't take the bait. But Spike, the fact is YOU CAN'T REPLY. That's because you will be embarrassed here on this thread just a much as Watchtower has been embarrassed by all those years of quotes.

  Just telling you how it is Spike. I felt bad too at one point realizing that my JW world bubble has been popped.

  Spike Tassel then concludes: "Vinny, I'm sure I will say Hi to Reniaa, and probably a whole lot more, if/ when I can meet her in person. A delightful gal if reality is like what I see on JWN. If you like her style, anyone here, you can complement her yourself and say Hi, etc. We're all capable of speaking for ourselves, as we've each proved in our own individual ways."

  **** Reniaa runs away from the very same things you are running away from here. The only person that even tried to justify all those mistakes, false predictions, medical disasters, blinking lights etc etc, all the while claiming God uses JW's was Thirdwitness on Topix. And he was TROUNCED and paid for it afterwards for even trying.

  Reniaa runs away. You run away. The reason is clear; nobody can defend the JW faith as being used by God today for anything.

  You see all the while you say God was refining JW mistakes, they were publishing NEW MISTAKES at the very same time.

  And many mistakes that were published Watchtower had no choice but to change or drop.

  1914 came and went. 1925 came and went. Beth Sarim (was huge WT embarrassment) and came and went. 1975 came and went. The generation of 1914 came and went. The 20th century came and went. Vaccinations stomped out polio, diptheria, tetanus, flu, cholera, measles, mumps, yellow fever, rubella and more. Organ transplants were never the same as "cannibalism" as Wt land stated and have saved or extended hundreds of thousands of lives. Many times dropped doctrinal understanding has been brought back. That aint not "light getting brighter" folks. That's called BLINKING LIGHTS.

  You see this is why Spike is fighting a losing battle. The WT was never God's anything. One look at the whole picture proves this without a doubt to any rational mind. That WT land is not what they say about themselves. That there is NO PROOF ANYWHERE that supports God has been using WT Society. In fact there is a MOUNTAIN OF PROOF that God has never used them: http://www1.tip.nl/%7Et661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm Deal with that for a while Spike and JW's. For example: Was God's spirit with WT when they said Organ Transplants was a "conscience" matter in 1961? Was God"s spirit with WT when they then said organ transplants are same as "cannibalism" in 1967? Or was God's spirit with WT when they said Organ Transplants are NOT the same as cannibalism in 1980? Was God behind all those changes each time? Did (((GOD))) get all those things wrong each time? Did God cause folks TO DIE by listening to the WT Society as the voice of God? AND THIS IS JUST ONE THING!!! We can do this same song and dance THOUSANDS OF TIMES. That's how bad defending WT world has become. Just telling you how it is once again. THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY IS NOT GOD'S ANYTHING. Sooner or later you will just have to face the music. All the best, Vinny
• 

  Spike Tassel

  I love the music at the Kingdom Hall, etc. I'm an enthusiastic singer of their songs. I'm sure the new ones being released will be just as awesome. The foretaste at the recent D.C. I attended was excellent.

  I love the NWT, especially the official Reference edition. It works well for the last 20 years of my Bible study. The articles on defenders of the Bible, on archaeological finds, on Creation vs. Evolution, on Bible principles and how to apply them peaceably. All of these are excellent and help me to enjoy a better understanding of "religion". [The footnote to 2 Kings 17:26 shows "religion" to be a translation of the Hebrew mish·pat´, literally "judgment; judicial decision".] Understanding Jehovah's judgment and Jehovah's judicial decision are key to understanding the issues which the WT has been addressing throughout its existence, and the words that have been issued in its publications' pages.

  Proverbs 26:4,5 bears repeating in this context also.

  v.4:— Do not answer anyone stupid according to his foolishness, that you yourself also may not become equal to him.

  v.5:— Answer someone stupid according to his foolishness, that he may not become someone wise in his own eyes.

  Making the truth my own is so important to me. If it were not, I would be delusional, which would help no-one, not even myself.
• 

  Vinny

  So once again Spike Tassel resorts to talking about Vinny while he AVOIDS THE ISSUES ENTIRELY.

  Poor Spike.

  Poor JW's.

  Life is sure one tough deal sometimes when you live in a state of denial.

  Sorry Spike, I do wish the best for you and yours though. You sound like an okay guy sometimes.

  Aloha,

  Vinny
• 

  reniaa

  What denial? it is not biblical to go it alone, and its just not practical to believe all different beliefs concerning God and think you all have it right.

  the one thing the whole bible shows is people need to be together in belief in God from the start. Jesus preached they would be one body in unity of belief, now many distort this to just mean a vague belief in 'jesus' and nothing more but that again is not biblical sound because Jesus came with an arm full of teachings and spirit to guide us as a people together.

  I do not critisise other churches because they have leaders or group together but because they have not followed the bible teachings especially on which God to believe in.

  What none of you guys can change is as a body the Jws believe the most biblically correct in this time, they have made mistakes but we are not free of this until Jesus returns, I am not using imperfection as an excuse to bury my shekel in the ground unused, which argubly is what all on this forum are doing because even the still practising witnesses on here no longer preach to others and no longer do the harvest work for God.

  One person said I am in a 'bible study group we study the bible together and exchange viewpoints' but at what point do you say "We all believe this so lets do it as a group"? If you gain all this bible knowledge but do not have the strength to apply it as a group in unity, where has all this bible study gained you? your just wasting it.

  The hardest part is coming together as a group and rebuilding your faith in God, applying bible principle and this forum has shown that the future for most members is just dis-unity, very few on here have built and found a greater belief in God, I have seen from listening to them. It's all about blaming Jws and not taking personal responsibility to be an active preaching follower of Jehovah ad his son Jesus.

  Reniaa
• 

  allelsefails

  Ren - That is what this forum is for. It is for those who have been abused by hypocrisy to find those who have a shared experience and not feel all alone. It is not designed for people like you to Judge us.

  As far as Biblically accurate groups - I like Christadelphians over JWs. Maybe Mennonites as well. They don't make stuff up and say it is biblical (like the dates for the end)

  Would you care to comment on the question I presented earlier? Spike has been unwilling to , but I would like your input if your willing

  Truth on the march. That is the Catholic Church's claim to authority. They were appointed by the 12 Apostles and they appointed the next set of church leadership, etc...etc.... They belive that the "truth" was not given in the beginning but their was a progreessive revealing of truth to the Church from Christ. They believe that their ecumenical councils have the authority that your "Faithful Slave" does. The arguement doesn't hold water for either one of you. It is all a bunch of man-made crap. ........

  In the scriptures progressive revelation always is in adding to existing knowledge - NEVER - does scriptural knowledge contradict previous knowledge. Like Russel said - "If future light should contradict current light then one of them is not light at all". The WTS continues to claim Jah is giving them "new light" that contradicts the "light" Jah gave them before - This concept is not scriptural nor acceptable to Christians.

  Thanks Ren

  Allelsefails
• 

  Vinny

  Reniaa writes: "What denial?"

  **** You have simply ran away from thread after thread after thread. You have been TROUNCED on so many specific issues here, only then you find another thread to post without addressing the issues from prior threads

  .

  I can point you to an easy half dozen and more Reniaa. YOU ARE IN DENIAL.

  Reniaa writes: "What none of you guys can change is as a body the Jws believe the most biblically correct in this time, they have made mistakes but we are not free of this until Jesus returns"...

  **** Reniaa, I can respect that statement from you though still not agree with you.

  Fine if you believe the JW's have the best of what you are looking for.

  Fine if you think JW's are closest to the bible.

  Fine if you feel most comfortable being a JW today.

  I say go for it Reniaa. Enjoy the JW religion and do what you want to get further involved with it.

  But the problem is that you do not stop there.

  NOT FINE that you condemn all other religions and people of those religions regardless of how spriritual and Godly they truly are.

  NOT FINE that you arrogantly believe that every person not a JW will be destroyed and is being misled by Satan.

  NOT FINE that you think God uses Watchtower to feed JW's food at the proper time (and only JW's) despite THIS LITTLE PROBLEM ON YOUR LAP:

  http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm

  You see Reniaa, the JW religion and you as a JW go much further than just thinking JW's are good for you, the best for you, closest to bible etc.

  AND THIS IS WHERE YOU KEEP GETTING SPANKED!!!

  Neither you nor Spike nor Thirdwitless nor any other JW that I have ever encountered or debated with can defend this sorry nonsense: http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm with God somehow choosing only Watchtower and using only Watchtower for providing food at the proper time to only JW's.

  This is where you cross the line, lose badly and then get buried and spanked all on the same thread.

  Why not just say this is a good religion for me and leave it at that?

  Why arrogantly teach that you must be a JW, JW's are the truth, God uses only JW's, JW's are God's people all the while you have pages and pages of PROOF that God never chose the JW's for anything, never got all those things wrong for 100 plus years and has not picked the Watchtower for anything at all.

  This is your problem. And this is where you are in denial. And what you run away from again and again.

  The JW religion is just that another religious institution and nothing more. The facts prove this again and again over and over.

  JW's preach (((THE JW))) message Reniaa.

  You know the one that said (in writing) that the end would come in 1914, 1925, 1975, before the generation of 1914 died, the year 2000. The JW message that forbids blood transfusions, that forbidded organ transplants, vaccinations, alternative service etc etc etc.... The one that says no beards, no holidays, no school sports or plays, no cub scouts, no red cross, no salvation army etc etc etc
  
  
  THAT is not the biblical message at all.
  
  
  And remember this fact: Before JW's ever showed up on the scene, Christianity was already GLOBAL!!! Now how did that happen do you suppose?

  I am telling you that God's hand is with my life. Now how does that happen Reniaa if I left his organization??

  I would be delighted to have proven to me that the Watchtower is what I thought it was for 15 years. I have debated with some of the most capable JW's in many places. But the results just prove what I have already known for some time; that the JW religion is not what they say about themselves.
  
  
  It's not a matter of my winning anything. It's truly a matter of putting the issues on the table and with an open mind coming to reasonable conclusions based on the whole range of facts and information.

  I have proven to myself (and my family as well as God Himself) that I am willing to be WRONG.That I am willing to be adjusted. That I can accept new information regardless of the consequences.
  
  After all I became a JW.
  
  
  And then I was willing to leave the JW's despite heavy consequences.
  
  
  What else do you need to see to realize I am willing to be proven wrong... or right... whatever the case may be.
  
  
  Truth is worth the effort and or consequences for me.
  
  
  That's what this journey called life is all about.
  
  
  And my Heavenly Maker knows this because I talk about it every day that I am alive. But you guys think I am some kind of godless apostate. Whatever works I guess.
  
  
  I did it too for 15 years.

  One thing we can all agree on is that God was sure not behind any of this:
  
  http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
  
  And THAT is the Watchtowers baby for life Reniaa!
  
  
  If the bible is true Jesus did many amazing things to prove God was with him.
  
  
  If the bible is true Moses did many amazing things that prove God was with him.
  
  
  And that sorry list is what JW's have to prove God is with them today??
  
  
  
  
  
  
  But the printed page does not lie Reniaa!
  
  
  Like I've said many times now; the Watchtower's greatest enemy today is its own literature!

  Now Reniaa, just believe what you want but keep the arrogance ("we are the only truth and you will be destroyed") out of it and you'll have more peace in your life and when you stop by here.
  
  
  All the best,
  
  Vinny
• 

  zombie dub

  Spike Tassel = reniaa, same person
• 

  reniaa

  hi allelsefails

  Erm christeldelphians would tell me that biblically satan isn't a real being at all and just my own sin being born in me and that confuses the whole of revelation which they most have to take very symbolically if at all, if they delete satan as a being.

  I checked mennonite and besides being very basic and un-united in teachings they are like the bible students in this, different congregations can follow different teachings what turns me off them is there belief in trinity and they worship Jesus as God. they are also becoming more mainstream one by one and so there is a greater fractoring of belief in their church.

  For me being a Jw is all about the teachings. The commitment to Jehovah's word and not being afraid to apply it in modern times in a world that takes it current opinion straight from Satan as it's ruler.

  I am not a believer in appostolic succession if that is your question? We are all christians from Jesus's time onwards but we sre still commited to the teachings of the bible so if we start putting teachings of men before the bible then we are going against God. In the catholic church's defence the delusion was a predicted thing that they couldn't avoid. Our only hope is the bible shows in the end times the true worshipers would stand out by following the greater truth of the bible.

  To be honest the witnesses Got me on the word Jehovah and always have. The delight I have in using a personal name for God is something I will never lose. And people not using God's name especially after leaving witnesses makes me wonder if Jehovah was ever in their hearts? How can people say they believe in God if they cannot even use his name or want to?

  if I haven't answered your question please refresh me more specifically?

  Reniaa
• 

  Spike Tassel

  In a recent study for JWN, I rediscovered a version of the NT that I bought some time ago. It is Jack J. Blanco's The New Testament — A Devotional Paraphrase to Stimulate Faith and Growth. Here's 1 Corinthians 13 in its entirety, keyed in by my own hand. The bolding here in verse 1 is that of Mr. Blanco. His plain language may bring a fresh perspective and new insights for you all, as it did for me.

  1. If I had the spiritual gift of speaking in any language I needed to, including the language of heaven, but didn't have that selfless love for others that Christ had, my gift would sound like a bronze gong and a pair of clanging cymbals.

  2. If I had the prophetic gift to predict the future and the gift of knowledge so that I could understand everything, no matter how difficult it is, and if I had the gift to see through all problems, and the gift of faith to work mighty miracles, such as moving mountains, but I didn't have that selfless love for others that Christ had, all these gifts would mean nothing.

  3. If I were to give everything I have to the church, and could donate enough money to feed the world, or if I were to become a martyr-hero and unflinchingly face death by fire, but did not have that selfless love for others that Christ had, all such heroic acts would be worthless.

  4. The kind of selfless love that Christ had is patient and kind. It never envies. It never puffs itself up. It never thinks of its own importance or serves only itself.

  5. This kind of selfless love is never rude or behaves unbecomingly. It's never interested in itself and its own advantages. It never focuses only on what's wrong.

  6. The kind of love for others that Christ had is never happy when things go wrong in people's lives, even if they brought the trouble on themselves. But it always finds joy in what's good and in the eventual triumph of what is right.

  7. This kind of love believes in people. It is always full of hope, and it always takes what comes its way without complaint.

  8. The kind of selfless love that Christ had will never become obsolete, but one day prophesying will, as will the gift to speak in different languages, and even much of what we've learned.

  9. The reason for this is simple. Our knowledge is not complete and our prophesying gives us only a small glimpse of the future.

  10. When the end comes and God gives us complete knowledge of things, then that which is only partial and incomplete will pass away.

  11. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, because I understood and thought as a child. But when I grew up and thought as a mature adult should, I stopped talking about things as a child would. My childish thinking was no longer adequate for my adult life.

  12. When we compare our present life to the future life, we are seeing only the reflection of things, but then we will see and understand things about ourselves as clearly and perfectly as God understands and knows us now.

  13. The only things that are important in life and that really count are faith in God, hope for the future, and having the kind of love for others that Christ had. These are the only three qualities that really matter, and the greatest of these is having the love that Christ had.
• 

  reniaa

  lol zombie while both spike and I are pro-Jw our writing styles are entirely different to accuse us of being the same person is just silly. Reniaa