What are the best books you've ever read about evolution? (page 3)

Psychotic Parrot

You think evolution involves cows turning into whales? One of THE most common creationist myths...

FAIL

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Jaguarbass. I don't quite follow your logic. Nevermind. I will just say that scientists who do research and publish papers are not "apologists" for anything. They simply use the theory of evolution as part of their "mental toolkit" to get things done. There is no reason for them to waste time with ancient myths or modern fictions, because they simply have too much to do in real life research.

Sitchen and his followers are no better than Russell with his pyramids or Fred Franz with his prophetic parallels. They write good stories based on pseudo-evidence, gain a following, make some money, and cry persecution when they are debunked.

Dave

sweet pea

marking, gotta lot of readin' to do!

inkling

jaguarbass:

First, you say:

"Human anatomy and Physiology by Marieb".....To me it proves we did not evolve.

And then a few sentences later:

"I'm an agnostic at 57."

Huh? How can you call yourself an agnostic as to some some sort of creator being/s,
when you JUST SAID that you are convinced- that is has been proven to your satisfaction-
that we did not evolve? If we didn't evolve, the only other option is that we were created
by an intelligent agency. This agency (I am assuming you feel it is a higher alien race)
either THEMSELVES evolved, or were created by some god like force, or ARE some god
like force... Either way, this leaves no room in your belief system for claiming to be
"agnostic" in regard to belief in some higher creative power.

"I was a believer"

And you still are.

[inkling]

PrimateDave

Inkling, if I may, what I think JB is going on about is that humans were designed by space men from the planet Nibiru. So, naturally we didn't evolve. What is unclear to me is how super intelligent space men (not to mention life as we know it) evolved on a planet that supposedly spends 99% of its time beyond the orbit of Neptune and Pluto. How cold is it on Pluto? Sitchen not only mistranslates ancient Sumerian texts, he has no concept of physics, ecology, astronomy, or any other hard science. Granted, I could probably enjoy reading a book by Sitchen as long as I didn't have to pay for it. I do enjoy reading thought provoking works of fiction.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick, science fiction writer.

Dave

villabolo

Science and Earth History: The Evolution/Creation Controversy by Arthur N. Strahler. Worth every penny of its $40 with five hundred of pages of highly detailed information.

Cosmos by Carl Sagan. Not a book on biological evolution per se but a "big picture" book that shows how even the "inanimate" universe evolves including stars and how they create the elements that are necessary for life to spontaneously evolve.

inkling

Inkling, if I may, what I think JB is going on about is that humans were designed by space men from the planet Nibiru. So, naturally we didn't evolve.

Yeah, that's the impression I got too.

My point is that someone who replaces one far fetched creation myth
with no supporting evidence for another, can hardly honestly call
themselves "agnostic" in the usual sense of the word.

I guess I should simply ask what exactly JB is "agnostic" about.

I bring this up because worldviews like JB are the reason I am
hesitant to label myself an "agnostic" when discussions of god
come up. I do feel somewhat agnostic as to the existence of
SOME sort of god, simply because I realize how bad humans
are at wrapping their heads around concepts such as space
time, and quantum physics, and how we insist on asking such
"absurd" questions like "what is outside the universe"

So, because I don't claim to understand THESE things, I guess
that makes me agnostic to a sort of "god" that could exist within them.
However, I am worried that if I identify myself as "agnostic" in
conversation, people will assume I am agnostic about things like,
say, the literal God of the Bible.

I am not. The god described in the bible is cruel and absurd and
not worthy of worship even if he did exist.

I am also not agnostic about astrology, homeopathy, the rapture,
Adam and Eve, or magic tricks.

I think there is a wealth of relevant evidence on these subjects,
and that evidence is stacked heavily enough on one side to
come to a reasonably conclusion, i.e. not agnosticism.

So why does it feel so weird when I try to call myself an atheist?

[inkling]

inkling

I do enjoy reading thought provoking works of fiction.

Agreed, however I find that the most thought provoking and
insightful fiction, (of the science sort and otherwise), are works
that are meaningfully informed by reality.

Like Kurt Vonnegut, and well, Phillip K Dick:

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick

[inkling]

jaguarbass

I am an agnostic because I can not process all the variables.

The devil is in the details.

I have a job where I get to read 5 hours a night.

I read a lot of things.

No matter how good they sound, no matter how many ducks are in a row

someone always comes around and says, no its not true because...

Thats not just about astronauts from other planets.

Thats about just about every topic on origins and beliefs.

I could spend the rest of my life reading why evolution is not true.

There is a whole industry devoted to debunking evolution starting with the

institute of creation science.

On the other hand I could spend the rest of my life reading about why evolution is true.

There is no end to it.

Thats why I am an agnostic.

I dont know what the aswer is regarding origens and beliefs.

I can read anatomy and pysiology and during that period say, this is proof to me

that we were created.

But then I have read the bible many times and I dont think the entity that made us wrote that book.

What ever made us is beyond our understanding, that makes me an agnostic.

Once I put on the agnostic hat everything is possible even evolution.

I could argue pro evolution, I choose not too. It's not the most comfortable fit, position for me, today.

I read a lot, what I read effects me. We become what we think about. I try to read a lot of different

things. If I had a job where I couldnt read It would probably be easier for me to take a stand

and not waver, that wouldnt necessarily make me correct.

My lifes experiences tell me to keep God alive.

Thats a bias I have.

I'm not rich and I'm not educated or well off enough to be self sufficient so I have to

depend and rely on God. or at least that's my handicap or crutch today.

In the past after I escaped the tower, I ended up in AA for 7 years.

I was at the edge of insanity AA and a belief in a God of my understanding

got me through my dark hour. I didnt need pills or alcohol. Just the understanding

of my God.

I dont really want to kill that. Thats my bias.

If science needs to beleive in evolution to advance, so be it

I'm not a scientist, I'm a jailer.

Maybe we evolved and there is no god.

Maybe there is a god and he used evolution to get us to where we are today

Maybe god is conciousness and we are god.

All the possibilities and no clear certainties make me an agnostic.

I have come to realize once you move off the agnostic position.

You take a stand, Just like being a jw.

And you argue for that stand whether its right or wrong you are always trying to shove

square pegs in round holes, I dont like putting square pegs in round holes.

And thats what I would be doing if I said I believed in evolution or I said I believed in creation.

MissingLink

>> And thats what I would be doing if I said I believed in evolution or I said I believed in creation.

It would have been more accurate to say "UNDERSTAND evolution or BELIEVE in creation"

I don't understand why you're posting on a topic asking for more information on something you clearly don't understand and have no interest in learning. If there's a topic about knitting, you won't see me posting something about my total lack of knowledge of the subject.

What are the best books you've ever read about evolution?

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