Genesis 1:2 — "God's active force" and equivalents

by Spike Tassel 30 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Narkissos

  Very interesting stuff.

  Another potentially important track in the OT texts can be found in the Exodus stories and allusions which (1) combine the "wind" and "sea / abyss" motives and (2) recycle old cosmogonic mythemes (from the Baal / Yamm or Marduk / Tiamat cycles for instance: Exodus 15:8ff; cf. Isaiah 11:15; 17:13; 63:11ff; Psalm 18:15; Job 26:13). The avian motif (which combines with the Mesopotamian-like winged "cherubim" in Psalm 18:10 // 2 Samuel 22) is less apparent in the OT (cf. also Zechariah 5:9) but may resurge in the connection of the Spirit with the dove in the Synoptic baptism scene and perhaps in the "shadow" theme in the Annunciation and Transfiguration (but then there is also the cloud motif which points back to the Exodus tradition again). A fascinating network of images anyway.
• 

  Leolaia

  Oh yeah, interesting connection with the baptism of Jesus. And that reminded me immediately of Odes of Solomon 24:1: "The dove fluttered over the head of our Lord Messiah because he was her head". It would be interesting if the same Syriac word rchp occurs here. I have the Syriac text and it looks like the word is prcht....could that be some form of rchp?? I don't know how it could be but what else would be the root with the same meaning?
• 

  Chalam

  Hello Dave,

  How can one define accurate? Language is such a flexible thing, and translators always bring their biases to their work. That is just the way it works.

  Well for starters, accuracy leads to consistency. As Narkissos has pointed out here, they prove their own inaccuracy by translating the words in a totally inconsistent way.

  Also, the use of "active force" goes well beyond any bias here. There is simply no valid reason why they should use either of these words.

  They do it to start a new WT "biblical" term and build their doctrine around it.

  If the WT apologists could show some additional verses to directly support the term "active force" and WT Holy Spirit doctrine it would be a miracle.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  PrimateDave

  Stephen, it is obviously a unique translation. I really don't see why some people are getting so worked up about it. Other translations use the words power, breath, wind, spirit, and Spirit. I assume there is some significance to the fact that some translators choose to capitalize the word "spirit." Perhaps that is due to their Trinitarian bias which I find strange due to the fact that we are talking about a Jewish holy book. There is no reason to assign personhood to the breath, wind, spirit, or active force mentioned in Genesis 1:2.

  Once again I must express my gratitude to Leolaia and Narkissos for their exceptional insight into these texts.

  Dave
• 

  Narkissos

  Leolaia,

  I just checked Payne Smith's dictionary online (http://dukhrana.com/lexicon/PayneSmith/index.php?p=459) and prch is indeed a partial synonym for rchp (the latter being used in Genesis 1:2).

  However there are other possible reminiscences of cosmogony in Ode 24:

  1. The dove fluttered over the head of our Lord Messiah, because He was her head.
  2. And she sang over Him, and her voice was heard.
  3. Then the inhabitants were afraid, and the foreigners were disturbed.
  4. The bird began to fly, and every creeping thing died in its hole.
  5. And the chasms were opened and closed; and they were seeking the Lord as those who are about to give birth.
  6. But He was not given to them for nourishment, because He did not belong to them.
  7. But the chasms were submerged in the seal of the Lord, and they perished in the thought with which they had remained from the beginning.
  8. For they were in labor from the beginning, and the end of their travail was life...
• 

  Spike Tassel

  I suggest "power of holiness".
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Dave,

  Stephen, it is obviously a unique translation.

  I agree! In fact I would not call it a translation at all. Genesis 1:2 proves that.

  I really don't see why some people are getting so worked up about it.

  Well people get worked up about it for the same reason they get worked up with all the other issues with the WT. The "biblical teaching" is at the core of the WT's tyrannical rule. The NWT is false in this verse and the teaching on the Holy Spirit is heresy.

  Other translations use the words power, breath, wind, spirit, and Spirit. I assume there is some significance to the fact that some translators choose to capitalize the word "spirit."

  OK let's look at a little evidence. What happened when the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost for example? Acts 2:2

  Although I think the words "active" and "force" are false, it is the WT teaching regarding the Holy Spirit which actually gets me most worked up.

  Perhaps that is due to their Trinitarian bias which I find strange due to the fact that we are talking about a Jewish holy book. There is no reason to assign personhood to the breath, wind, spirit, or active force mentioned in Genesis 1:2.

  Maybe, maybe not. However, we need to look at the rest of the bible to see if the Holy Spirit is a person or an impersonal "active force" as the WT teach. Even, with the pages of the corrupt NWT it is clear that the Holy Spirit is a person, with a voice, with feelings etc.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  Spike Tassel

  personification doesn't mean a person. like when a ship is called she. if you read poetry or are familiar with native cultures, many things are represented as have voice and feelings. it doesn't mean these things really do. it is a form of imagery.
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  PSacramento

  Its true tha many writers like to personifie objects and in the bible there are many cases of that like the land need rest for example, attributing human qualities to a non-human entitiy.

  In the case of the HS though, that isn't always what is being done, Jesus describes the HS as a messenger and teacher, the HS even judges and such.

  Certainly we can still argue that it is personification, but that seems to be a case for arguing against what seems to be plainly stated.
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  Spike Tassel

  I understand that the "Holy Spirit" is our "spirit of holiness". A search online shows that other groups use that helpful phraseology as well.