passwordprotected, I think its part of the cult of "Importance". The elders, as we know, just love to be special. Just as the Pioneers used to be viewed as "Special", as "Nazarites", etc. To be a star in the right hand of Christ is pretty big stuff. The book just seals the deal. It's all crap. W.Once
MUST SEE!!! Best Youtube Video on Theocratic Warfare that I've ever seen!!!
by Tuesday 26 Replies latest jw friends
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BorgHater
There should be NO secrets in the organisation - especially an organisation you are literally trusting with your life. There should be nothing that the r&f are not allowed to be privvy to. This is one of the things that bothered me most as a jw.
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carla
If a publication is withheld from any member especially when the jw's claim they have no hierarchy 'we're all the same' then it most certainly is secret.
Password said "and to not even tell my wife about it."- we have heard that numerous times from ex elders here and elsehwere.
Does the book have 'evil motive'? I can't think of any other way to explain that book! A book that gives mere men in the cong the license and power to destroy families and relationships? what could be more evil short of outright killing the people or lopping off body parts for disobeying the men in NY?
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designs
I still have my Elder book and I 'stepped down' 20 years ago. The tragic part of being an Elder was the lack of training, particularly in counseling and not genuinely helping people thru rough times.
But hey, now we get to help wherever we see a need exist.
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flipper
WASANELDERONCE- I understand what your point was you were putting across clearly. " It's wrong to focus on the book as the source of hidden evil. " I get that. But what I disagree with is that the normal rank and file are not privy to information that will assist them or help them exercise their rights as a Jehovah's Witness on EQUAL FOOTING with elders and those in power. Your statement , " I was never told to make a note NOT to tell people they could not have witnesses when we had a committee " is like I've heard elders tell me about child abuse, " We have never been told to tell people they CAN'T go to the police first about an alleged child abuse happening. " It's eerily similar.
O.K. So you weren't told to NOT tell people they could take a witness with them to their JC . Point accepted. Then did you or ANY elder you ever know proactively TELL A PUBLISHER, " You have the right to take a witness to your JC meeting brother or sister ? " THAT'S the important point I'm making here. Jehovah's Witnesses ARE under what Steve Hassan calls " information control". There are certain things that the leaders of the WT society DON"T WANT rank and file publishers to know because they want witnesses kept under ultimate control of the WT leaders. And THAT is the point I feel the u-tube is trying to make. Just my opinion
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cognac
I've never heard of a custody packet... Do we have any links to them?
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gubberningbody
The point to be noted is that the Bible does not condone or authorize lying in any form. Yes, imperfect humans who Jehovah loved lied, but their sin of lying was forgiven because of their motives, even so, it should be noted that it is still a sin.
Jesus never lied, never was there deception in Jesus' mouth. He either spoke or remained silent.
Anything other than following this example in Christ is sin.
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designs
What would be of value is to compare what other Religions offer to their ministers for guidelines in counseling and church discipline.
At our companey we just had an Evangelical steal $1000.00's from the firm through false invoices. What will his Church do.
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Tuesday
If I may comment my piece on the video for WasAnElderOnce since I posted the video in the first place.
Craig probably does place a bit too much of the "evil aura" surrounding the book. I personally feel it's important in this case because if you mention "Theocratic Warfare" to JWs, they'll say "I've never heard of that" or say that "JWs openly lie to people" JWs will say that they under no circumstances lie. This however I think is pretty powerful.
I think what Craig is trying to prove is that JWs have cult properties. Like secret books, Craig wanted to prove there were secret books. The thing here is that the Ministerial Servant seemed surprised about the existence of that specific book. And if the book were simply common knowledge I don't think the elder would've reacted the way he did.
For this video, he was using this as an example of theocratic warfare. The elder lied and wouldn't answer his question. As the video maker said "diversion" was one of the tactics.
I think they're both pretty effective videos, but I'm definetly open to hearing what you feel would be more effective. What do you think would be the be-all-end-all for videos showing the cult property of pyramid knowledge (books made available to you the higher in command you go) and a video showing JWs practicing theocratic warfare.
It would help everyone to have opinions on how to make more effective videos.
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mraimondi
the elder book, to me, was common knowledge, after a year or so into being a witness. people talked about it, i was encouraged to read from it as an MS - i didnt even hear any restrictions regarding the notes... although those notes could be personal, and it would make sense if they shouldnt be read.
the pioneer book was supposed to be a "privelege" to those who pioneer, we were told not to lend it out, but that we should show others in order to encourage them to do the same.
Again, my experience seems to be quite different than the people here.