confused. Was in the middle of sending out some last minute "seasons greetings," cards. Any way, he spoke of the events of the last year, how they were significant, about the brothers going to the trade center and offering comfort from the scriptures, while priests and ministers only offered water and towels, and about the change in subscription arrangement. I felt pretty smart because I had heard about all of those things on this board, and the reasons for them. But he said that Jehovah was loving and kind (and I really want to believe that) and that brothers do make mistakes. He also told me that if I can only get to a meeting now and then, it would be okay.
I mean, he was so kind and loving in his speech. I am easily swayed by affection and attention, why am I feeling this way? I thought I had everything sorted out in my head.....FreeFalling
ELDERS JUST HERE, and now I'm
by FreeFallin 23 Replies latest jw friends
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FreeFallin
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individuals wife
Dont fall for it - I made that mistake, was out for almost a year then got sucked back when I started to listen to their excuses and false sentiments. Hence I wasted more time following a religion based on time sheets and meeting attendence more than love for fellow man and true acts of charity.
You know deep down I am sure that the 'brother' was not being totally honest when he said that if you could only get to a meeting now and then it would be OK, that is never enough for them. They want you completely in their grasp.
You say that he was so kind and loving in his speech yet you know what is behind his words.... keep this in the forefront of your mind, this is not the sort of affection and attention you need! There is plenty of love and affection in the world without having to resort to a religion that is so good at destroying peoples lives. I for one can do without it, I have never been more happy since I made the final leap for freedom, never been more fulfilled, never been more content with my life and the decisions I make. They are my decisions now, not decisions made for me from the pages of a WT magazine.
Be strong.
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Seeker
He's probably a nice guy, and it's natural to respond favorably to kindness. Plus you have all that JW mental training that responded to the buttons he pushed. We've all been where you are, and what you are feeling is perfectly natural. Just remember, you can decide for yourself what to do. Don't let us sway you. Don't let the elders sway you. Do what is right for you.
As for what the elder says, let's take it apart, shall we?:
Any way, he spoke of the events of the last year, how they were significant,
Did he give any specifics about their significance, or just talk in generalities?about the brothers going to the trade center and offering comfort from the scriptures, while priests and ministers only offered water and towels,
At that moment, the one thing needed most were water and towels. The workers had a job to do, not stand around and talk about the future. That talk could have and should have come when they weren't busy working.and about the change in subscription arrangement.
Is that significant of anything, according to him?But he said that Jehovah was loving and kind (and I really want to believe that)
You can believe that, and still not be a JW, if you wish. Many that leave the WTS continue to worship Jehovah, some of whom post on this board.and that brothers do make mistakes.
Did he differentiate between mistakes from imperfection and deliberate deception? The Bible, as you know, excuses the former, but condemns the latter.He also told me that if I can only get to a meeting now and then, it would be okay.
Until you start going to a meeting now and then. Then it won't be OK any more, and they will ask you to make all the meetings, and it would be OK. Then after you start going to all the meetings, they will ask you to go out in service now and then, and it would be OK. Then after you start going out in service now and then, they will ask you to make the national average, and it would be OK.... -
FreeFallin
Dear IndividualsWife
Thank you for your kind words and speedy response. I know I have to be strong and think for myself. It's so easy to let others make decisions for you, that's the trap, and I know it. Really, who else can explain why the world is the way it is, except the witnesses. And that is so appealing, to know, or think you know, the way out.
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ashitaka
I agree. He's probably a good guy, but intentions aren't everything.
ashi
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individuals wife
who else can explain why the world is the way it is, except the witnesses
I have found that the witnesses do not have a monopoly on why the world is in the state it is in, and even though they claim to have a correct explanation there are many that can pick holes in their teachings, I say 'their teachings' because they seem to steam ahead and leave the Bible behind.
Asking any Christian you can be sure to be told that it is Satans and mans fault that we are in the mess we are in, most Christians I have come across will also tell you that God will step in at some point and sort out the mess that has been created. Prophecy is not just followed by the witnesses, others too are watching world events with interest, just not with the same 'excitement and anticipation' that was so prevelant when I was a JW.
And that is so appealing, to know, or think you know, the way out.
I am so glad you added the word 'think' to that phrase! The evidence that they are the true religion is just not there. They have failed over the years in so many ways and they have lost all their credibility. God would not use such a flawed messenger, a messenger that keeps changing the content of the message, a message that should be constant as God never changes, a message that was meant for everyone with the right heart condition not just JWs.Just my thoughts.....
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borgfree
FreeFallin,
I have found over many years that the jw elders fit the description in the bible (below) than being true friends or brothers.
"For such men are false apostles - spurious, counterfeits - deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles (special messengers) of Christ, the Messiah. And it is no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light, So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. [But] their end will correspond with their deeds." 2 Cor. 11:13-15 Amplified Bible
Be careful.
Borgfree
"You can fool some of the people all of the time" especially if you are a member of the WT GB
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joelbear
Dear Free,
you ask
Really, who else can explain why the world is the way it is, except the witnesses
I recommend Guns Germs and Steel: The Fate of Human Societies by Jared Diamond. Fascinating look at the progress of humanity through the ages by an evolutionary biologist.
Joel
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Frenchy
Not all elders are as borgfree describes just like not all elders are as the Society describes them. All 'faithful' elders have an agenda and that is to preserve the flock and make increases. Remember that the elders are just as much victims as you are. Insulting elders and hurting their feelings will only re-invforce what they believe.
I know that it's hard for some to think on their feet when confronted by an elder. This is an authority figure and for some it's not easy to question one in authority. Now that a little time has elapsed, however, you can more realistically reflect on what he actually said to you. (Note Seeker's comments)
I don't know your personality but you may want to approach this 'brother' again and ask him what he meant by the things he said which you are taking to heart. Go down the list and use Seeker's suggestions or come up with some of your own.
You might even zero in on a particular point that you would feel comfortable with like: "that brothers do make mistakes." Ask him what 'brothers' he's talking about and if that would include the governing body. Don't push, just ask. Caution: Only do this if you will feel comfortable doing that.
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Amazing
Hi Free: JW Elders, as you know, are people like anyone else. Some are as Christian as they can be within the Watchtower system, and some are quite Christian, not because of the organization, but in spite of it. Some Elders are sincere, genuinely care about people, and some do not fully agree with the organization. And some few Elders are not JWs in their hearts, and you will find some on this forum. They remain JWs for a variety of personal reason, and do all they can within the context of the JW religion to be loving, kind, and not place undue burden on the JW members.
Caution: That said, Elders, no matter how kind, considerate, loving, and felxible they are personally, cannot forever stall the blind, cold steel wheels of Watchtower justice. Eventually, some of these Elders themselves will either leave the religion, or be forced oout, or will turn a blind eye when injustice is being done. All this depends on where they are at with the religion, with God, and their own consciences and personal values.
What is important?: Your own decision to stay a JW, in name only, or to try and very quietly leave, or openly walk away is of far greater importance to you right now, than what any well intentioned Elder might do or say. For they each have their own lives and burdens to bear, just as you have yours.
The important thing is to ask yourself: Are you happy with where you are at now? If so, then keep doing what you are doing. If not, then how do you wish to change it? Ultimately, it is your own life, your own decisions, your own actions and heart that must take charge and do what is going to work for you. In most cases we are the masters of our own destinies, and most of the time it is our own actions that determine the results we receive.
Sometimes, it is the fault of others. The Watch Tower Society certainly bears fault for misleading us, for covering over truth, and trying to manipulate us, even through the kind voices of fellow JWs, be they Elders, family, or close JW friends. Once we see through this facade, the religious scam, the fraud, then the burden shifts back to each of us individually to make the choices that will affect our lives.
Serious type choices are often painful because they involve something being sacrificed for something else, and often we do not fully understand the outcome of our choices. Life and reality, in some ways, are cruel to us, because even our best of intentions and efforts can all take us down the tank.
But, I have found that experience of life over my own 50 years has taught me enough to know how to avoid most of the bad most of the time. And, most importantly, to cherrish the good I find, and treasure each and every day for what it is, for I can never live that day again. - Amazing