How many of you knew about the"Jesus is not your Mediator" teaching when you were JWs?? (page 11)

Mad Dawg

Here is Hebrews 8:6 in context:

Chapter 8

1 Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being. 3 Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4 If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10 This is the covenant I will establish with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11 No longer will they teach their neighbors, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The words “Jesus is specifically mediator to the covenant between between annointed and God” simply do not appear here in any way, shape, or form. All it is saying is that there is a new covenant the replaces the old one and that Jesus is the priest of the new one. Nothing here limits the covenant or mediation to some “annointed” class.

Deputy Dog

isaac

My reply:
And this is not biblical either. There is not verse that says if had to be an equal balancing transaction.

This an other reason for my question; when Jesus said: "I am the bread of life which came down from heaven" what actually came down?

booby

I tried to paste this from 09 wt

V alue

Christ as Mediator

14

Like Moses, Jesus was a mediator. A mediator acts as a bridge between two parties.

Moses mediated the Law covenant between Jehovah and the Israelites. If the sons of Jacob

obeyed the Iaws of God, they would remain God's special properry his congregation.

(Ex. 19:3-8) That covenant stayed in force from 1513 B.C.E. until the flrst century C.E.

15

In 33 C.E., Jehovah initiated a better cov enant with a new Israel, "the Israel of God,"

which became a worldwide congregation made up of anointed Christians. (Gal. 6:16)

While

the covenant mediated by Moses included laws written by God on

stone, the covenant mediated by Jesus is superior. laws are inscribed by God on human hearts. (Read 1 Timothy 2:5; Hebrews B;-?0.) "the Israel of God" is now God's special prop erly, 'a nation producing the fruits' of Messianic Kingdom. (Matt. 21:4 3) M e mbersof that spiritual nation are the participants in that

new covenant. Still, they are not the only ones to beneflt from it. Untold multi tudes, even many who at present are

asleep

in death, will receive everlastingblessings because of that

superlative covenant.

Its

Thus,

the

JeffT

A couple of years ago two JW's came to my door. I told them that as a Christian I couldn't follow a religion that taught that Jesus was not my mediatior. They said something like "Of course we believe Jesus is our mediator." I said "When did that change?" After they said they had always believed that I told them to go look at the '79 WT and come back and see me. Never saw them again.

I think it is very true that JW's have no idea what they're actual doctrine on this subject is.

@PSacramento: No, JW's are clueless about Grace. If they don't spend enough time trying to sell Watchtower's they aren't saved. What a said why to try to buy favor with God.

Mad Dawg

Actually, if we are to accept the idea that the sacrifice had to be balanced, then Jesus would HAVE to be God. God is an infinite god. He is infinite in honor. When commit a sin, we dishonor Him of infinite honor. We have committed an infinite offense and need an infinite sacrifice. Only God, in the person of Jesus can fulfill that. Jesus, also being infinite, endured infinite shame on the cross.

isaacaustin

Deputy Dog,

Great point. To call this an equal transaction would mean Adam was also the bread of life.

yknot

Here ya go Kudra!

This was studied Sunday, June 28, 2009

Here is a link to Blondie's comments too.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/177790/1/Blondies-Comments-You-Will-Not-Hear-at-the-06-28-09-WT-Study-GREATER-MOSES

PSacramento

There is nothing WE can do to "balance the scales", we are imperfect humans, to the core, no matter what we do or say, no matter how much we can "preach" or "pontificate", it will never be as much as what God did for us when, through the death of his Son on the Cross, he redeemed US, Forgave US, Poured his grace unto Us, through his Son Jesus Christ.

To insinuate, much less say, that Jesus's death was for "selected few" not only cheapens his death and sacrifice, but is a slap at God.

ALL THOSE THAT BELIEVE IN HIM, SHALL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

Kudra

Thanks, booby. It's kind of implied... they don't come straight out and say it but you have to assume it...

Ha ha. I may bring this up to my jesus freak sister and bro in law and my JW mom at the same time... Maybe not.

Anyone have a scan of that WT??

April 2009, study edition??

Deputy Dog

isaac

I would love to have spike or reniaa (or any JW) explain to me what came down.

How many of you knew about the"Jesus is not your Mediator" teaching when you were JWs??

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