How many of you knew about the"Jesus is not your Mediator" teaching when you were JWs??

by Lady Liberty 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  isaacaustin

  DEPUTY DOG:

  Actually, they teach he was just a man. They say the price would be to great if Jesus was God.

  My reply:
  And this is not biblical either. There is not verse that says if had to be an equal balancing transaction. Romans 5;15-17 says:

  "But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ."

  The gift it not like the trespass...Jesus gift of life is much more than the value of the sin of Adam. The idea of a perfect balancing transaction is absent from this concept. Jesus sacrifice outwighs Adams sin by far on the scale. This equal transaction is a Wt fantasy. Just like someone might pay millions in ransom for the return of something worth far less, Jesus did the same for us.
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  androb31

  "Actually, they teach he was just a man. They say the price would be to great if Jesus was God"

  This teaching is one of the foundational differences in Christian theology and JW'ism... JW's think Jesus was only of equal value to Adam and that he only paid Adam's sin debt so after that was paid man could "earn" favor in God's eyes. Unfortunately they fail to realize that in the case of Adam if Jesus was only a corresponding ransom for his (Adam's) sin then Adam would be the only one able to receive salvation. Jesus died for ALL sin ever committed of ALL men, women and children who would ever live. Sorry to break the news to you JW's but no angel or archangel or perfect man or anyone any less than GOD carries that kind of value to cover ALL sin. Especially considering we humans were made "a little lower than angels" (Heb 2:7).
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  undercover

  I didn't know the full doctrine. I assumed that Jesus was mediator for all, though he had a special covenant with the 144,000. We still prayed through Jesus, he was head of the congregation, it only made sense that he was our mediator as well as the 144,000. But to be honest, I never paid that much attention to the more convoluted doctrines.

  Another thing about Jesus being mediator to only the 144,000... those in this arrangement are called the true Christian congregation. All non-144,000 aren't just left out in his being mediator for them, they're left out of the true Christiann congregation, thus technically speaking, under WT doctrine, are not Christians. They're just followers and believers hoping to benefit by treating the holy ones kindly and by supporting them.

  Ya wanna stump a dub who really isn't up on his JW theology?

  Ask them who their mediator is. If they says "Jesus", ask them to show you from the Bible. If they can use the Bible even, they'll eventually find 1 Timothy 2:5 and read it and say "See, one mediator between God and man."

  Confirm that they accept the Bible as the final authority and then drop the bomb on them. "But you know, the Society doesn't teach that..." and then show them the WT quotes where it claims that Jesus is not mediator for all. If they were a real robot, instead of a human robot, you would see smoke start coming out of their central processing unit.

  Even if they do a 180 and accept the Society's quote over the Bible, a seed was planted. And they probably will, initiallly, claim belief in what the Society says over what they just read in the Bible. But later it could very well raise some doubts as they realize that they recanted belief in the Bible to support the WTS.
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  isaacaustin

  ANDROB31...THIS EQUAL BALANCING TRANSACTION GOES IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE WT FABLE THAT JESUS DIED ONLY FOR ADAM'S SIN. THIS IS USED TO BOLSTER THEIR TEACHING THAT NO ONE HAS ASSUARANCE OF THEIR SLAVATION...BUT MUST WORK FOR THEIR SALAVATION...CARRYING THEIR SINS ALL THE WAY WITH THEM...HOPING THAT AT JUDGMENT DAY JEHOVAH WILL SAY THEY DID ENOUGH.
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  sacolton

  isaacaustin, I'd be honored to walk the Earth with you to minister for Christ.
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  isaacaustin

  THANKS SACOLTON, THE FEELING IS MUTUAL :)
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  Kudra

  It seems like they could say- oh that was from 1979 (the QFR), there surely has been new light by now...

  But one poster wrote that there was another article in 2000 (or was it 2007??) tht reiterated the 1979 understanding.

  Could you PLEASE post THAT article? I have no way of looking this up (no WT CD or anything)

  THANK YOU.

  -K
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  Kudra

  It was Ynot who said:

  The teaching that Jesus is only mediator of the anointed is still fully intact unchanged since Rutherford.

  (Recently as April 2009 WT-SE page 27, para 14, 15.)

  Rumors of committees discussing mass sweeps of past interpretations (Rutherford, Knorr, Franz) have been whispered since 2007.

  Thanks!
• 

  orangefatcat

  It never ceases to amaze me the way people soak up the organizations lies by believing every word the G.B. teaches them like sponges. ( I don't mean to be critical of decent God fearing persons seeking out the truth of God's word as I know many sincere witnesses are out there. I hope they see through the lies before it is to late.)

  It is as if no witness has their own thinking capability left anymore. Why can't they see the lies? Or maybe they do and it becomes a fear factor thing for them and the high price they would have to pay for resisting MOM or for whatever reason they don't act upon this exposure of light, only the Lord knows.

  Sometimes you wish you could just shake the witnesses up and say wake up, look the WTS is lying to you. See we can prove it to you.

  As a side thought: What I find interesting here is that the church teaches Christ as the mediator between us and God. They didn't get it wrong. And look how the organization hates other religions.

  As far as I am concerned it is outright arrogance on the part of the Society to say that Christ is the mediator only between the 144,000 and God. They have warped the scriptures to suit themselves and hold millions of witnesses subserviant to their brainwashing tactics. It obviously works, as there are so many witnesses. They can't all be wearing blinders. Can they?

  I just hope that witnesses keep coming to sites like this and learn what they are being taught is not scriptual but made up by the WTS to fit people into their moulds. Making witnesses good Chirstian soldiers.

  I thank the Lord above for Him giving me the strength to get out of the witness albeit 38 years. It is never to late for an awakening and a spiritual rebirth.

  Orangefatcat.
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  yourmomma

  I had no idea either. In fact, when i started researching the WTS my mom was worried about it, and she said to be careful because she knew people who have done the same and ended up leaving. I told her "dont worry, I would never leave, unless they did something crazy and came out with a watchtower that said Jesus wasent our mediator." LOL! How freaking ironic. Once I saw this, I was stunned. Then shortly after finding this out, I then found out that the society teaches that the Bible was coruppted by the church by removing the name Jehovah from all the NT manuscripts. I had been doing research on textual critisism and the transmission of the Bible, and knew this was simply physically impossible. (Unless of course the church had time traveling capabilities like Dr friggin Who). And then finally I discovered that the NWT changes the NT text to support their theology. Strike 3! On a side note, I then showed my mom what the society teaches about Jesus not being our mediator, and that was it for her. This is a woman who had been a faithful witness for 30 years. Now I know each of us have different reasons for leaving, and each of us has different beliefs, but as far as the Christians I know who left the WTS, who really had an apperciating for Jesus, when they found out what the society teaches, they felt is was basicly blasphomy. I mean it would be like if you were Jewish and the society taught that Moses was a punk. LOL. You cant help but be offended, thats at least my take. I find the societys teachings on Jesus to be offesensive and blaspemous. As blaspemous as my spelling, and as unacceptable as my not using spell check.