The bibles missing books

by jacethespace 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jacethespace
    jacethespace

    Throughout the bible it constantly points to books which havent been included in the codex.For example it says "see the book of Enoch" or "Enoch prophesied of these..".And "see the book of Jasher" as well as others.

    The watchtower has always said that even though Babylon the great isnt gods organization that they happened to be guided by gods holy spirit when they decided which books to cananize and which to not.

    Only thing is thinking about it one thing springs to mind!

    If they are written about in scripture under the israelites and under the Christians of the 1st century then they were of course using these "missing books" back then anyway.

    So the watchtowers stance on this is flawed.

    Does anyone else have anymore information on these missing books or the watchtowers info on this?

    Jacethespace.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    hi jace

    I would be surprised if you could find anywhere that the bible says read some such book. it might in passing mentions items from a couple non-bible secular books of the time but that doesn't make them part of the bible. You need to provide proof of your statements.

    Reniaa

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    I can not think of any statements to read such and such a book. There are instances where these books are referenced. Too tired to think now but off the top of my head...the books of Kings and Chronicles generally sum up a king saying "The rest of the acts of so and so, are they not written in the Chronilces of the Kings of Israel." These are simply historical records...accurate yes...inspired no...from these the writers drew much of there info.

  • JustHuman14
    JustHuman14

    This is a very good link regarding the Biblical Canon. It gives lot of information why do WT and Protestands accept 10 less book...The Bible is not the ONLY source for the Christian faith. There are many aspects that form Christianity, things that Protestands ignore.

    By the way Reniaa can you tell us if the Bible indicates the Books that consist the Old Testament and the New?

    http://www.oodegr.com/english/ag_grafi/kanonas0.htm this is the clarification of the Bible Books

    http://www.oodegr.com/english/ag_grafi/grafi1.htm this link examines if it is Christian to accept only what the Bible says

    http://www.oodegr.com/english/ag_grafi/grafi3.htm this one examines if the Bible our only source of faith

    Hope you read them since they will give a different perspective from the Protestand point of view

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    hi just human

    Jesus himself witness on the hebrew scriptures...

    Matthew 5:17
    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

    and as for the greek scriptures he prophecied towards them saying they would get the spirit to guide them to greater truth.

    John 16:12-14 (New International Version)

    12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

  • JustHuman14
    JustHuman14

    The New Testament took on its present form during the 4 th century A.D. when the Canon of Saint Athanasios prevailed, which for the first time added the book of Revelations to the New Testament. Up to that time, no Canons had included it. So, how can anyone accept the book of Revelations (which was a 4 th century choice) and reject older texts of the Church as unreliable ones?

    Various Protestant religions, as by-products of the 16 th century Reform era and lacking any historical continuity from the time of the Apostles, have placed in doubt the pre-existing (to Protestantism) Church and arbitrarily declare that the Church was in apostasy. In this way, they have acknowledged only the Holy Bible, which apparently dates back to the time of the Apostles. The truth is, that the 4 th century Church (which they do not acknowledge) was the one that defined which books were to comprise the Holy Bible. There were other, 1 st century writings at the time; on the basis of the 4 th century’s tradition, Saint Athanasios selected those books that concurred with Ecclesiastic Tradition. To the extent, therefore, that Sacred Tradition is considered apostatic and wrong during the 4 th century, to the same extent the Holy Bible must be considered equally apostatic and wrong .

    Timothy I, 4/IV 15 - 16, 6/VI 3 - 14: “ these you should study, in these you should stand, so that your diligence is evident to everyone. Keep for yourself also the teaching, persistently. In doing this, you save yourself as well as those who listen to you.” “If someone teaches other things and does not listen to the healthy words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teachings of reverence…. falling sick over conversations… you must keep the commandment unblemished, irreproachable, until the epiphany of our Lord Jesus Christ”.

    As any logical person can see, neither here is there any mention that we should accept ONLY the Holy Bible; in fact, it isn’t even talking about the Holy Bible. On the contrary, it talks of “words”, which directs us basically to spoken tradition, given that they were later recorded in a multitude of texts (including the Holy Bible).

    Ephesians 2/II 19 - 22: “... being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, whose cornerstone is Jesus Christ”.

    Here it doesn’t even refer to writings a all, only to the building of the Church. But even if was referring to writings, the fact that something is built upon the foundation of the apostles, would prove that newer, divinely inspired books are also acceptable.

    The Holy Bible says that there are other sources apart from it. In the last verse of John the Evangelist, it says: “… Jesus did many other things, which, if written down one by one, there would not be enough room in the world to hold those writings”.

    And elsewhere, the Holy Bible itself asks us –by the mouth of the Apostle Paul- not to reject Sacred Tradition; In Thessalonians II, 2/II 15 we read: “Therefore my brethren, stay steadfast and preserve the traditions that you were taught, either verbally, or through an Epistle of ours .”

    So, apart from everything that was written in the Epistles of the Apostles, their word was also recorded, and preserved to this day, along with the remaining tradition. Why then, don’t the deniers of tradition accept these words of the Holy Bible?

    They should be very careful when invoking the words of the Lord that were directed against the tradition of the Pharisees, because those words were directed against Judean tradition, and not Christian tradition.

    Christian tradition also includes “solid sustenance”, which the Apostle Paul refers to in his Epistle to Hebrew, in chapter 5/V 11-14. In this most difficult epistle of the Holy Bible, the author refers to all of these as “milk”. But if that is the case, then the Holy Bible mustn’t contain the “solidsustenance”!! Consequently, “solid sustenance” must be sought in the rest of the Sacred Tradition.

    The same thing is apparent in verse 19 in Peter’s Epistle II. In there, the divinely inspired prophetic word is merely a lamp that glows in a dark place, until the light-bearer comes forth inside our hearts.

  • Spike Tassel
    Spike Tassel

    To JH14, http://www.oodegr.com/english/ag_grafi/kanonas0.htm claims that the Holy Bible contains not only Divinely Inspired books, but several other categories of books as well. In my honest opinion, this claim is refuted at 2 Timothy 3:16 which states "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteous,"[highlights mine]. The key is that inspired of God means Divinely Inspired.

  • Jim_TX
    Jim_TX

    ...and what defines 'divinely inspired'?

    That's about as nebulous as saying "I'm one of the annointed".

    How do you know?

    Because I get a feeling that I am.

    Oh. Okay. ALL HAIL THE ANNOINTED!!!

    Rubbish.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Canonisation cuts a collection of texts out of a broader corpus: it is bound to leave some seams loose on the periphery. It obscures the "original" relationship of the texts it retains with those it leaves out ("apocrypha" = "hidden") and develops (or creates) new relationships between the former, resulting in a new intertext which necessarily changes the meaning of individual texts.

    [Side thought: a canonical approach to the texts is entirely valid in principle (in a sense, it can be deemed the only true Biblical approach stricto sensu) but it cannot make sense of the pre-canonical meaning of the texts (why and how they were written in the first place, and rewritten down to their canonical form).]

    But from this (formal) perspective, the notion of "missing books" to any canon (or Bible) doesn't make sense. A canon is tautological by definition: it is what it is; it reflects a group decision which results from power struggle and negotiation (and which hierarchical authority only sanctions in last resort). Only from a Protestant sola scriptura perspective (and the WT take is no different in this respect) is it unsatisfactory.

    An all-embracing Bible wouldn't be a Bible at all. It would ultimately equate scripture with writing itself ("all scripture" as Borges' Library of Babel, which is certainly not what the author of 2 Timothy had in mind -- but he wrote it nonetheless).

  • Spike Tassel

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