by AllTimeJeff 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The leaders have to give an account of what they do the bible predicts it and them!
Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.
You cannot deny scriptorial truth of the words above
Reniaa
If you are using that verse to show that leaders will be accountable for what they do, teach and how they lead I am in agreement. If you are furthering that as a text to say we are to obey them in everything, I again refer you to verse 7 to understand that the obedience is to the point that their teachings are actually in line with Jesus teachings.
They are imperfect, and make mistakes. That is why we are supposed to follow them blindly, repeating the mistakes they make until they feel like correcting them. That way, instead of having one person with a bad viewpoint and making bad decisions, you have around 5 million (and another 2.1 million getting hounded for not doing it).
Hi Isaac,
Paul clearly added things to what Jesus said and was obeyed the principle is that the leaders teach things in line with Jesus's teachings of principles. Like with smoking being wrong as it is destroying the temple of your body etc.
Like with smoking being wrong as it is destroying the temple of your body etc.
WOW, I missed where Paul stopped blasting homosexuality long enough to mention smoking.
I don't recall that they even knew about tobacco in his day, so what were they smoking? Hashish?
Well, even if Paul didn't mention cigarettes specifically, I guess it is okay to extend the teachings of Jesus to include these since they are "destroying the temple of your body." So let's list some more things that are bad for the temple of the body:
Soda, junk food, fast food, coffee, red meat, alcohol, caffeine, mood-altering drugs, anything the mind feeds on (mind is part of the temple of the body) so I could list television and radio and most print and the internet.
So if some leaders wanted to proclaim these things in God's name as things to ban, I suppose a good case could be made for that.
But they would be imperfect men with no accountability for their words because they are "spirit directed."
Ren you keep making the same mistake.
Even if you're right about a course of action doesn't give you a right to go beyond what is written and do exactly what the pharisees did in their endless commentaries on the law.
Smoking?
Sure it's bad for your health and by extension engaging in the same is a "sin", however to declare it to be a disfellowshipping offense is to go beyond the scriptures and subvert the god-given responsiblity each christian has to exercise his faith with his own powers of reason.
The mistake every one makes is this business of following men and accepting their commands as doctrine.
This thread isn't about smoking and JW exegesis on the matter, so let Reinna start a new thread if she wants on the subject.
This is MY thread, and I want the focus on the accountability of the elders and GB for the power they wield.
While a ban on smoking is a consequence of buying into the GB power structure, again, the points about accountability are paramount. Mary's latest thread on freeminds.org has detailed experiences of the effects of tobacco farmers and others in the business who lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in the early 70's as a result of following the GB.
What choice did they have, esp with 1975 around the corner? They got hosed.
Again, another sad consequence of people who followed the GB and got nothing. But does the GB have any accountability? Not in their eyes...
Lets stay on topic, this is an important and real argument against the GB. They want no accountability for the very real power they hold over their flocks...
I Picked smoking because it has the added effect of being bad for other people's health too like still-births etc, I myself got a disease from years of passive smoking other peoples smoke. I actually think one day the governments may ban smoking alltogether from the sheer health costs of looking after people who deliberately hurt there bodies that way.
Accountability also includes being able to make the hard decisions on current practises that weren't around in the bible days!
Leaders have to have the confidence that what they Ban is something Jesus would as king given the principles which he set down also ban himself as our ruler.
Reniaa
Reniaa
Why not start your own thread on this then? This isn't about one particular teaching of the GB. You could pick any of them. The problem is how the GB wash their hands of accountability after making law.
Again, start your own thread. The issue is accountability, not smoking. Smoking is a personal choice, the bible nowhere comments on it, and if you as a JW don't want a cigarette, be my guest. Don't smoke. And accept my congratulations for not smoking.
Now stay on topic!
Leaders have to have the confidence that what they Ban is something Jesus would as king given the principles which he set down also ban himself as our ruler.
Don't forget clinking glasses. Such a God-dishonoring practice. They didn't have much "glass" in Jesus day.
Jesus exposing of the pharisees showed that manmade rules went too far. Each person needs to take accountability for himself.
I can actually support smoking bans by the government, but don't say that manmade rules out of Brooklyn are from God.
Sorry for giving in to Reniaa's JW mindset and distracting on your thread. I tried to tie it back to the topic. I will stop now.
